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The Wyden Siren Goes Off Again: We’ll Be “Stunned” By What the NSA Is Doing

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Re: The Wyden Siren Goes Off Again: We’ll Be “Stunned” By What the NSA Is Doing

#151

Post by gzread »

cobbzilla wrote: post #128
stackghost wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Probably the actual classified artifact is an NSA policy document that details the NSA's own interpretation of the law and thus forms part of its governance.

No, it’s a secret FISA court decision that the public can’t see but a member of the Senate Intelligence Committee can, but he can’t tell us what he’s seen. But he can ask questions to get the surveillance state to pull another Clapper-esque whopper and get away with it.

Can he tell us in Congress with immunity, like the one who read out all the redacted names of the Epstein pedophiles?

Re: The Wyden Siren Goes Off Again: We’ll Be “Stunned” By What the NSA Is Doing

#152

Post by [deleted] »

CamperBob2 wrote: post #63
quickthrowman wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> but my line of thinking is not 'do i trust the government' it's 'do I have faith in all future forms of government who will have access to this data' This is how I view privacy as well. You never know who will be in power and who will access that information in the future with ill intent. This line of thinking kept me away from the Mpls ICE protests. All of the people that protested had their face, phone, and licen…

I’m not even afraid of being persecuted by the current administration, it’s the possibility of a much worse administration in the future that gave me pause. Unfortunately, your (entirely understandable) position is exactly what will enable such an administration to come to power. What you are doing in 2026 is what you would have done in 1936.

[deleted]

Re: The Wyden Siren Goes Off Again: We’ll Be “Stunned” By What the NSA Is Doing

#153

Post by stinkbeetle »

Zigurd wrote: post #44
kasey_junk wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Does anyone ever actually use that line? Most people will argue that the trade off in privacy is worth it for security. That is, if you frame your argument such that you believe people don’t understand the trade off it allows you to not engage with the fact they just disagree with your conclusion.

Have you ever sat on a jury in a criminal case? A frighteningly high percentage of people will swallow every lie a cop tells, even when thoroughly discredited in cross-examination. There's no shortage of people to guard the concentration camps.

You don't even need to leave your basement, or even this website to see this in action. A frightening number of people are totally subservient to the government and place blind faith in politicians and their paid-for "experts" and bureaucrats and regulators.

Re: The Wyden Siren Goes Off Again: We’ll Be “Stunned” By What the NSA Is Doing

#154

Post by ProllyInfamous »

avazhi wrote: post #121

“ Senator Ron Wyden says that when a secret interpretation of Section 702 is eventually declassified, the American public “will be stunned” to learn what the NSA has been doing” This is not the same thing as saying people will be stunned by how long it took to discuss/investigate the matter, which is what Wyden actually said…

"When the American People figure out what we've been up to, there will be riots in the streets" former analyst George Herbert Walker... decades ago.

Re: The Wyden Siren Goes Off Again: We’ll Be “Stunned” By What the NSA Is Doing

#155

Post by ProllyInfamous »

WarOnPrivacy wrote: post #109
dlev_pika wrote: post #32

So glad to see my Oregon senator regularly on the money.

I can name 3 ethical politicians, Ron Wyden, John Huntsman and Bob Graham. It's a painfully short list, considering my longish life.

Soon-to-be US Senator James Talerico (D-Tex)?

My "ethical" list has several dozen politicians, but it is definitely short. And their names don't seem to last very long into each career...

Re: The Wyden Siren Goes Off Again: We’ll Be “Stunned” By What the NSA Is Doing

#157

Post by tim333 »

wing-_-nuts wrote: post #13

Everyone who's not terribly worried about privacy always uses the line 'if you're not doing anything wrong, you have nothing to worry about', but my line of thinking is not 'do i trust the government' it's 'do I have faith in all future forms of government who will have access to this data' Given how fast and lose I've seen the DODGE folks play with the data they have, absolutely not . I still shudder over the fact t…

As someone not very worried about privacy I don't use that line but think it's worth while using some reasoning as to the likelihood of bad stuff happening. Cambodia 1975 - terrible data but chances of genocide very high. Google knowing what I'm up to now, very likely but probable harm beyond seeing an ad, very low. I think sometimes people worry about the wrong things on that kind of basis.

Re the current US government I'd be more worried about their cruelty as illustrated by ICE, DOGE etc.

Re: The Wyden Siren Goes Off Again: We’ll Be “Stunned” By What the NSA Is Doing

#158

Post by rincebrain »

anigbrowl wrote: post #49

The whole concept of 'secret interpretations of law' is anathema to me. Secret information makes sense, there are lots of reasons a government might legitimately want to maintain a veil of obscurity. Secret interpretations of law are a manifestation of tyranny. I like Ron Wyden but he should just employ his Congressional privilege here and read it out.

I believe the problem here is that that works precisely once, then they stop inviting you to the classified parties.

So as he gets older, the cost/benefit changes, but I believe that's why he hasn't, is that his calculus involves him being the only one this reliable on screaming about what's going on behind closed doors.

Re: The Wyden Siren Goes Off Again: We’ll Be “Stunned” By What the NSA Is Doing

#159

Post by magicalhippo »

thaumasiotes wrote: post #147
magicalhippo wrote: post #143

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It wasn't a list of Jews, it was a list of everyone from which Jews could be easily identified. The distinction is important in this context, since the purpose of collecting and keeping the data wasn't specifically to have a list of Jews handy. This is relevant to data collected by companies and governments today. Consider a list of children with their parent names and the parents' preferred pronouns. You don't have…

> The distinction is important in this context, since the purpose of collecting and keeping the data wasn't specifically to have a list of Jews handy. How does that make the distinction important? The lesson to draw is "you shouldn't keep a list of Jews, whether you think you're doing it for good reasons or not". The list is a list regardless of whether you think calling it a list is fair in some abstract sense. > Yo…

> Except of course that you do have a list of gays.

If you go to your kindergarten and tell them to stop keeping a list of gays they will look at you weird and most likely dismiss you as a nutjob. Because they don't have a list of gays, they just have a list of kids with their parents' names and pronouns.

That's why I think it's important to keep the distinction rather than conflate the two like you want to.

Re: The Wyden Siren Goes Off Again: We’ll Be “Stunned” By What the NSA Is Doing

#160

Post by anonzzzies »

wing-_-nuts wrote: post #13

Everyone who's not terribly worried about privacy always uses the line 'if you're not doing anything wrong, you have nothing to worry about', but my line of thinking is not 'do i trust the government' it's 'do I have faith in all future forms of government who will have access to this data' Given how fast and lose I've seen the DODGE folks play with the data they have, absolutely not . I still shudder over the fact t…

But with ICE arrests of people who did their best to make that craphole their home that line of thought must be wearing thin yeah? Nice for making a lot of money faster than mostly (china can be faster but chinese know they have to leave asap after they did instead of be proud to sit in it) anywhere else but outside that?

(I am from the EU, lived in US and China and am rich because of both, would not live in either ever again)

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