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Enhancing gut-brain communication reversed cognitive decline in aging mice

med.stanford.edu

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Re: Enhancing gut-brain communication reversed cognitive decline in aging mice

#151

Post by meindnoch »

adaptbrian wrote: post #141
meindnoch wrote: post #131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It certainly anecdotal, but feels like you can positively effect your gut microbiome for example by riding a bicycle. If its not the bike's biome then what is it that so satisfingly calming post ride. Would love to be enlightened. Ride a bike if you need to destress, amazing machines.

https://www.frontiersin.org/journals/cellular-and-infection-... https://www.cell.com/iscience/fulltext/S2589-0042(25)02209-6 https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S235277142... im talking about impacting your microbiome through another animal, not the short term effects from aerobic exercise or BDNF and what that feels like. this experience didnt hit quite like other typical metabolic functions. great to…

These articles talk about subtle changes to one's microbiome by cohabiting with animals and trading microbes with them. That's a process that takes place over months if not years.

Meanwhile, you suggest that such microbial influence must be reason you feel calm right after riding your horse.

I don't think I need to further explain why it's a ridiculous claim.

Re: Enhancing gut-brain communication reversed cognitive decline in aging mice

#152

Post by meindnoch »

mhluongo wrote: post #142
meindnoch wrote: post #128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So, you stopped being an alcoholic and pothead, and your memory improved? Wow, it must be those gut microbes!

What unnecessary snark. Is a little civility too much to ask for?

Ridiculous claims deserve to be ridiculed.

Re: Enhancing gut-brain communication reversed cognitive decline in aging mice

#153

Post by 5o1ecist »

inanutshellus wrote: post #9

Everyone's "poo-pooing" the article because the title doesn't mention mice, but, FWIW, stories of gut biota affecting humans behavior have been documented for a while. Memory gain is noteworthy, which is the article's "wow" factor, but everyone's just knee-jerk smirking so ... here's a few random articles to gross you out about the wild world of trading microbiota and, for better or worse, changing your personality:…

[dead]

Re: Enhancing gut-brain communication reversed cognitive decline in aging mice

#154

Post by Aurornis »

coldtea wrote: post #123
Aurornis wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> 1. I stopped drinking heavily and using other drugs, i.e. marijuana Heavy alcohol use and marijuana are both known to impact memory and recall directly. Discontinuing both of those explains changes in memory. Attributing this to microbiome changes does not follow.

> Heavy alcohol use and marijuana are both known to impact memory and recall directly. And who said they don't do this (long term) exactly through their affecting the gut microbiome?

Both alcohol and marijuana have direct actions on the brain. That’s why people consume them.

They do not exert their primary effects via microbiome modulation. This is obvious because the effects occur nearly immediately upon consumption, whereas microbiome change from what you consume is a gradual process.

The question I have is: Why has microbiome become the explanation for everything? What would lead you to believe that microbiome would be the explanation for this, when the direct action upon the brain is so much more direct and obvious? Microbiome is an interesting area of research but how did we get to this point where some are ignoring the obvious and trying to construct alternative microbiome based explanations for things like alcohol and marijuana impairing memory?

Re: Enhancing gut-brain communication reversed cognitive decline in aging mice

#155

Post by Aurornis »

uxhacker wrote: post #144
Aurornis wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> 1. I stopped drinking heavily and using other drugs, i.e. marijuana Heavy alcohol use and marijuana are both known to impact memory and recall directly. Discontinuing both of those explains changes in memory. Attributing this to microbiome changes does not follow.

This paper actually surveys research on humans and not mice. The association between gut microbiota and cognitive decline: A systematic review of the literature https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S027153172... It shows ”Gut microbiota modulation improves cognition in adults with early impairment. Diet, probiotics, and fecal microbiota transplantation share mechanistic pathways and that evidence clarifi…

Yes, there are some interesting potential mild modulations that can occur with microbiome change.

That paper commits one of the major sins of many microbiome papers which is to attribute all benefits of diet change to the microbiome. Like the parent commenter it gets drawn to the idea that all changes in the body can be traced back to the microbiome and assumes that it explains everything, but that’s obviously not true.

However, when someone is taking two powerful substances with direct brain action and known modulators effects on memory, blaming anything else in the body is bad logic.

Re: Enhancing gut-brain communication reversed cognitive decline in aging mice

#156

Post by Aurornis »

iammjm wrote: post #148
Aurornis wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If this was true, sugar cravings would disappear when taking antibiotics that kill those microbes. The fact that this doesn’t happen should give you pause about this woo-woo theory of cravings. The reason you crave sugar and fat and other tasty things is that they taste good. You evolved in a world where feeling rewarded and driven to consume more of these was beneficial to survival when food was scarce.

Clearly "tasting good" is not the primary driver behind all of this. Good taste is an incentive to satisfy something more primary, similar like sex feels good in order to satisfy procreation

> Good taste is an incentive to satisfy something more primary,

Covered in my comment above: The more primary drive is that those are high calorie foods. A drive to consume more high calorie foods is beneficial in times of food scarcity, like the past.

Re: Enhancing gut-brain communication reversed cognitive decline in aging mice

#157

Post by Aurornis »

theshrike79 wrote: post #119
Aurornis wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If this was true, sugar cravings would disappear when taking antibiotics that kill those microbes. The fact that this doesn’t happen should give you pause about this woo-woo theory of cravings. The reason you crave sugar and fat and other tasty things is that they taste good. You evolved in a world where feeling rewarded and driven to consume more of these was beneficial to survival when food was scarce.

Antibiotics don't kill 100% of the gut biome, if it did so, we'd die. It does some decimation, but not a full genocide.

Cutting sugar doesn’t kill 100% of the gut biome either. It doesn’t kill gut biome at all, actually, it just changes some of the proportions. Those parts of the microbiome are most likely still there, just in different ratios.

Antibiotics are a far more powerful and faster modulator of gut biome, therefore if the above was true we’d see similar effects occurring more rapidly with antibiotics than diet.

Re: Enhancing gut-brain communication reversed cognitive decline in aging mice

#158

Post by Aurornis »

mustaphah wrote: post #83
Aurornis wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> What's really cool is that the paper used low-dose capsaicin (just 5 μg/kg injected), and it completely restored hippocampal FOS activity and memory in older mice. There are countless papers published where simple ingredients produce miracles in mice. Most of them don’t replicate. If you look up most food ingredients you can find someone, somewhere claiming to have used it to produce amazing outcomes in mice. After…

> After you read a lot of those you learn not to take individual papers seriously Can't disagree, but keep in mind that almost all meds are tested first in mice/animal models before human trials verify the effects.

My comment had nothing to do with mice versus humans.

It’s about singular papers with too good to be true results. You can find these in humans too.

Re: Enhancing gut-brain communication reversed cognitive decline in aging mice

#159

Post by mustaphah »

Aurornis wrote: post #158
mustaphah wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> After you read a lot of those you learn not to take individual papers seriously Can't disagree, but keep in mind that almost all meds are tested first in mice/animal models before human trials verify the effects.

My comment had nothing to do with mice versus humans. It’s about singular papers with too good to be true results. You can find these in humans too.

I guess "too good to be true" is not a decent argument to convince a rational mind

Re: Enhancing gut-brain communication reversed cognitive decline in aging mice

#160

Post by sooheon »

idiotsecant wrote: post #81
bitexploder wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most of the serotonin we produce comes from our gut.

The blood brain barrier is a deny by default firewall. If there is no transporter configured for a particular molecule, it doesn't get through. There is no transporter for serotonin

Your nervous system extends over your entire body, the brain doesn't live in a firewalled jar.
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