I'll stick to Polish
Kotlin creator's new language: talk to LLMs in specs, not English
151–160 of 304 posts
Re: Kotlin creator's new language: talk to LLMs in specs, not English
#152Earlier quoted context omitted.
> Models aren't deterministic - every time you would try to re-apply you'd likely get different output So like when you give the same spec to 2 different programmers.
Yes, if you had each programmer rewrite the code from scratch each time you updated the spec.
In reality you give the same programmer an update to the existing spec, and they change the code to implement the difference. Which is exactly what the thing in OP is doing, and exactly what should be done. There's simply no reason to regenerate the result.
The entire thing about determinism is a red herring, because 1) it's not determinism but prompt instability, and 2) prompt instability doesn't matter because of the above. Intelligence (both human and machine) is not a formal domain, your inputs lack formal syntax, and that's fine. For some reason this basic concept creates endless confusion everywhere.
Re: Kotlin creator's new language: talk to LLMs in specs, not English
#153We built LLMs so that you can express your ideas in English and no longer need to code. Also, English is really too verbose and imprecise for coding, so we developed a programming language you can use instead. Now, this gives me a business idea: are you tired of using CodeSpeak? Just explain your idea to our product in English and we'll generate CodeSpeak for you.
I'm really glad random HN commenters know it better than someone that built a language that has been used in thousands of products.
Even Noble Prize owners made huge mistakes after the prize.
Re: Kotlin creator's new language: talk to LLMs in specs, not English
#154From what I was able to understand during the interview there, it's not actually a language, more like an orchestrator + pinning of individual generated chunks. The demo I've briefly seen was very very far from being impressive. Got rejected, perhaps for some excessive scepticism/overly sharp questions. My scepticism remains - so far it looks like an orchestrator to me and does not add enough formalism to actually ca…
I find it weird that this comment is gray but it's the only one in the thread so far that mentions TLA+ which is highly relevant here.
Re: Kotlin creator's new language: talk to LLMs in specs, not English
#155Earlier quoted context omitted.
The point would presumably be to formalise it, then verify that the formal version matches what you actually meant . At which point you can't/shouldn't regenerate it, but you can request changes (which you'd need to verify and approve).
But the code produced from the formal spec would still be nondeterministic. And I believe CodeSpeak doesn't wish to regenerate the entire program with each spec change, but apply code changes based on the changes to the spec. Maybe there could be other benefits to formalisation in this case, but determinism isn't one of them.
It doesn't matter if the code is different if the spec is formal enough to validate the software against it.
I have no idea about codespeak - I was responding to the comments above, not about codespeak.
Re: Kotlin creator's new language: talk to LLMs in specs, not English
#156Earlier quoted context omitted.
I'm really glad random HN commenters know it better than someone that built a language that has been used in thousands of products.
Kotlin is generally considered a bit of a dud in the modern programming language space.
It's a blessing when you're in the native Android / React Native / Flutter space.
Re: Kotlin creator's new language: talk to LLMs in specs, not English
#157[dead]
Re: Kotlin creator's new language: talk to LLMs in specs, not English
#158I cannot read light on black. I don't know, maybe it's a condition, or simply just part of getting old. But my eyes physically hurt, and when I look up from reading a light-on-black screen, even when I looked at only for a short moment, my eyes need seconds to adjust again. I know dark mode is really popular with the youngens but I regularly have to reach for reader mode for dark web pages, or else I simply cannot st…
Yeah I am the same.
Definitely in the minority on this one as dark mode is really popular these days.
Really hard to describe how it is literally physically painful for my eyes. Very strange.
Re: Kotlin creator's new language: talk to LLMs in specs, not English
#159Earlier quoted context omitted.
> Models aren't deterministic Is that really true? I haven’t tried to do my own inference since the first Llama models came out years ago, but I am pretty sure it was deterministic: if you fixed the seed and the input was the same, the output of the inference was always exactly the same.
LLMs are not deterministic: 1.) There is typically a temperature setting (even when not exposed, most major providers have stopped exposing it [esp in the TUIs]). 2.) Then, even with the temperature set to 0, it will be almost deterministic but you'll still observe small variations due to the limited precision of float numbers. Edit: thanks for the corrections
You shouldn't be downvoted - LLMs could in theory be deterministic, but they currently are not, due to how models are implemented.
Re: Kotlin creator's new language: talk to LLMs in specs, not English
#160Buddy invented RobotFramework, great job.