It's hard not to get incredibly excited about the second order benefit of this. Remember the first year of COVID when lockdowns actually reduced the common cold and other less lethal bugs? Imagine if this thing worked well at scale--in a generation you could have people straining to remember getting colds all the time.
Universal vaccine against respiratory infections and allergens
151–159 of 159 posts
Re: Universal vaccine against respiratory infections and allergens
#152Earlier quoted context omitted.
What's interesting to me is that one of the biggest booms in pharma over the last ~10 years has been biologics / monoclonal antibodies that treat auto-immune diseases by SUPRESSING cytokines. Examples include TNF inhibitors like Remicade/Humira/Enbrel; or specific IL-XX inhibitors like Dupixent/Cosentyx/Skyrizi/Tremfya/etc; or interferon therapies for MS. These are increasingly used for a broad (unlimited?) set of au…
I would like to see the "increasing" body of evidence pointing towards traditional vaccines. My wife has an autoimmune disease. Most all the evidence points towards gut biome but that shit is super complicated. We have very little research into what our gut biome needs to be.
If you want to continue to believe that vaccines come with no issues, you will find more than enough evidence to support that belief. I'm not here to dissuade you of that. If you are open to considering other possibilities, look into molecular mimicry and immune crossreaction, adjuvants and ASIA syndrome, bystander activation and epitope spreading, MMR and ITP, and the Guillain Barre syndrome studies
Re: Universal vaccine against respiratory infections and allergens
#153Earlier quoted context omitted.
> I don’t think you understand it, if you cannot connect the dots. This doesn't mean anything. > Chances for survival to reproduce of some individuals are greatly influenced by survival of their relatives in the same group. The traits that help whole group to survive will win in natural selection, including those that extend survival beyond what’s necessary to reproduce to what’s beneficial for the group. Which, of c…
If you think that repeating the same sentence twice would make it a better argument, maybe you should think again. Saying “it’s not X”, when nobody claimed X is quite strange way to prove anything.
I suppose "repeatedly" complaining about how someone says you're wrong is easier than admitting you had no idea what you were talking about in the first place. Seems like a suboptimal life strategy, though.
Re: Universal vaccine against respiratory infections and allergens
#154This is cool but I’m sorry, that’s not a vaccine - it’s a prophylactic. A vaccine or inoculation is named because it creates a sustained adaptation to a targeted antigen. Something that boosts immune response is not an acquired adaptation! This would need to be re-upped every month or so. Good for travel and brief encounters. Not an actual immunization. Not too mention boosting cell growth factors can have unintended…
> This would need to be re-upped every month or so.
Great for the investors though? ;)
Re: Universal vaccine against respiratory infections and allergens
#155Earlier quoted context omitted.
Evolution just needs people survive long enough to reproduce. If they get sick afterwards, it doesn't care.
Evolution happens both sides - you and the virus/bacteria trying to live off you. One of the risks of an always on response, is if something evolves to evade it - you have nowhere to go. It's why taking an antibiotic at breakfast everyday is not a good idea.
> It's why taking an antibiotic at breakfast everyday is not a good idea.
Eh, the main downside in the short run is that you are killing your gut fauna.
> One of the risks of an always on response, is if something evolves to evade it - you have nowhere to go.
Evolution can't look into the future. (And eg bats are pretty much always on with their immune system.)
Re: Universal vaccine against respiratory infections and allergens
#156This seems too good to be true. Respiratory infections kill and debilitate a lot of people. If cranking up the innate immune system all the time reduced illness with no downsides, you'd think evolution would have done it already, but it didn't, which makes me think there's probably a downside, and the fact that the innate immune system is only cranked up when a pathogen is detected is probably because the downside is…
It's probably because maintaining the immune system at high levels costs more energy. You probably know that antibiotic use is rampant in industrial livestock. But do you know precisely why? Antibiotics aren't just given prophylactically to prevent infections; constant low doses actually *increase the animal's size*. The animals can put more energy into growing larger, and spend less on their immune system.
I'm not sure the causal mechanism is completely understood.
Re: Universal vaccine against respiratory infections and allergens
#157as someone with chronic nasal allergies, would this work for me?
Depending on how bad it is for you, I can recommend thinking about turbinectomy. Had it done due to chronic, allergy related swellings, and it was life changing.
do you still have any symptoms? I had a turbinate reduction and septum surgery last year, it's helped but I still need sprays in the morning and night and pills for the allergies.
Re: Universal vaccine against respiratory infections and allergens
#158Earlier quoted context omitted.
Evolution just needs people survive long enough to reproduce. If they get sick afterwards, it doesn't care.
Evolution happens both sides - you and the virus/bacteria trying to live off you. One of the risks of an always on response, is if something evolves to evade it - you have nowhere to go. It's why taking an antibiotic at breakfast everyday is not a good idea.
The immune system will grow fat and lazy, it will forget how to manufacture anything and be of no use to the rest of the organism.
Re: Universal vaccine against respiratory infections and allergens
#159Earlier quoted context omitted.
Evolution happens both sides - you and the virus/bacteria trying to live off you. One of the risks of an always on response, is if something evolves to evade it - you have nowhere to go. It's why taking an antibiotic at breakfast everyday is not a good idea.
> It's why taking an antibiotic at breakfast everyday is not a good idea. Eh, the main downside in the short run is that you are killing your gut fauna. > One of the risks of an always on response, is if something evolves to evade it - you have nowhere to go. Evolution can't look into the future. (And eg bats are pretty much always on with their immune system.)
> Evolution can't look into the future.
Sure. But yesterdays mistakes can be punished today. ie all evolution happens in retrospect - a mutation haopens - the world tells you after the fact whether that was good or bad. Evolution is hindsight in action. In hindsight - taking antibiotics everyday might have been a bad idea.
> Eh, the main downside in the short run is that you are killing your gut fauna.
Sure - thus increasing your chances for being colonised by an unfriendly and antibiotic resistent bug - which may result in your death - which in hindsight was obviously a bad idea....