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Florida judge rules red light camera tickets are unconstitutional

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Re: Florida judge rules red light camera tickets are unconstitutional

#151

Post by [deleted] »

californical wrote: post #7
embedding-shape wrote: post #2

Seems the fact that it was a "red light camera" is completely irrelevant? The relevant part: > The defendant argued the statute unconstitutionally requires the registered owner to prove they were not driving — instead of requiring the government to prove who was behind the wheel. Bit like having to prove you weren't the one breaking in , rather than the police having to prove you were guilty. In light of this, seems…

I see your point, but these are civil tickets rather than criminal charges. And since there’s already many laws and regulations around owning a car, such as registration… isn’t it trivial to say “you are responsible for a car that you register by default” In the same way, if your car fails emissions tests, you can’t register it and it’s the responsibility of the owner to ensure that their car meets emissions standard…

[deleted]

Re: Florida judge rules red light camera tickets are unconstitutional

#152

Post by cromka »

pclmulqdq wrote: post #132
cromka wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

OK, but then you're testifying under oath and lying, because it was you who did it, after all?

If you have an immunity deal and are asked to testify about a crime you committed under it, you admit to doing it and they can't prosecute you.

Gotcha.

Re: Florida judge rules red light camera tickets are unconstitutional

#153

Post by 0x3f »

pclmulqdq wrote: post #130
0x3f wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's a big difference in when you break silence though. Strategically, much better to keep it until all the facts are known to your side. At the start, the police/government have the informational advantage. In other countries, even delaying (but eventually speaking) can allow a negative inference to be drawn. The right to silence is important even if you eventually speak.

The correct way to interact with the American legal system is never to talk at all unless you have a written immunity deal. Kids should learn to say "no questions/searches" and "slide the warrant under the door" from their parents.

Pre-lawyer it's never a good idea to talk. Post-lawyer often not either. But there are some rare cases you might negotiate a disclosure through your lawyer. For example, if they're about to ransack your home or get you fired from your job and you've got a rock-solid alibi.

Re: Florida judge rules red light camera tickets are unconstitutional

#154

Post by HDThoreaun »

IncreasePosts wrote: post #131
HDThoreaun wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If someone is using your car they cant legally give you a ticket. If the picture taken doesnt clearly show you theoretically it needs to be dropped but of course thats not how it works in reality

Seems silly. Just attach the ticket to the car itself and then the registered owner can handle obtaining payment from whoever was driving the car. If the registered owner wants to claim that someone stole their car or was operating it without permission then there can be some very hefty punishment for making false statements if it can be proved that it was actually the owner in the car.

I believe the issue is that moving violations often give you points on your license. If it was just a fine I think they could put it on the car, but because the of the potential loss of a license they need to actually have evidence of a person committing the violation.

Re: Florida judge rules red light camera tickets are unconstitutional

#155

Post by hnburnsy »

kstrauser wrote: post #133
jotux wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I suspect this is some light with chronically-bad timing that gets run by tons of people every day. The camera is taking a photo with a bunch of vehicles in the frame and it's ticketing the one that had the license plate unobstructed, even if a few of the vehicles in the frame technically entered the intersection when the light was yellow. Sometimes lights are just so poorly implemented, and drivers pass through them…

My hometown got busted making yellow lights shorter than the legally required duration, then hitting drivers with tickets for running a red light they couldn't have safely and reasonably avoided. There are standards for this kind of thing, like if a light is on a road with a speed limit of X, then a yellow light has to last Y seconds. Imagine a yellow light that lasted .5s: you'd have to stand on your brakes and risk…

In same states they also mark the intersection start where the curb ends and not at the crosswalk starts, so you think since you passed the crosswalk under yellow you are safe to proceed but you have not yet entered the intersection.

Re: Florida judge rules red light camera tickets are unconstitutional

#156

Post by [deleted] »

daveoc64 wrote: post #73
eweise wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Four people in my family drive my car. I'm supposed to track that? sure.

The standard for this in the UK is that you should make a reasonable effort to work out who was driving. e.g. checking your calendar/diary, looking through receipts or bank statements to work out where you likely were. There's also a requirement that a request for information is sent within 14 days for minor incidents like speeding or red light violations, so it's not like you have to work out who was driving on a Tu…

[deleted]

Re: Florida judge rules red light camera tickets are unconstitutional

#157

Post by vaadu »

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VinCGmdj-jQ He's a lawyer and describes it in excellent detail.

One side issues the judge brought up is that no points go on the driver's record with a red light camera offense. The entire point of the points system is to get bad drivers off the road. But people can have numerous red light infractions and still keep their license.

Re: Florida judge rules red light camera tickets are unconstitutional

#158

Post by kstrauser »

morkalork wrote: post #138
kstrauser wrote: post #133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My hometown got busted making yellow lights shorter than the legally required duration, then hitting drivers with tickets for running a red light they couldn't have safely and reasonably avoided. There are standards for this kind of thing, like if a light is on a road with a speed limit of X, then a yellow light has to last Y seconds. Imagine a yellow light that lasted .5s: you'd have to stand on your brakes and risk…

Is this the case where instead of admitting to it, the municipality attempted to have the complainant prosecuted for practicing engineering without a licence?

No, that was Oregon's turn to be Embarrassment of the Week: https://ij.org/press-release/oregon-engineer-wins-traffic-li...

Re: Florida judge rules red light camera tickets are unconstitutional

#159

Post by SilverElfin »

Great. Ban speed cameras next. They’re just performative safetyism used as revenue sources or by activists on an anti car quest. But I actually suspect all of this will somehow be twisted into something neither side expects, which is mass surveillance and tech grift.

Re: Florida judge rules red light camera tickets are unconstitutional

#160

Post by mikkupikku »

SoftTalker wrote: post #126
mikkupikku wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't see why the government should have to prove who was driving to issue a ticket, it's not like they have to prove who parked the car to issue a traffic ticket.

Parking tickets don't go on your driving record. They are just a tax on parking improperly.

I thought the same was true of automated red light and speeding tickets too.
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