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Boy I was wrong about the Fediverse

matduggan.com

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Re: Boy I was wrong about the Fediverse

#151

Post by BugsJustFindMe »

krapp wrote: post #150
BugsJustFindMe wrote: post #147

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People don't want to join "an instance". People don't want to care about what "an instance" is which also means being asked to be aware of things like instance-specific moderation rules. And I don't know what it's like now, but cross-server following used to be quite annoying.

People join "rooms", "lobbies", "boards", "subs", "groups", "servers" and the like all the time, and deal with moderation rules.

Facebook groups and subreddits became so popular because they're all on centralized websites so you can join many of them all in one place and you can talk to people in all of them through the same platform. Single service, single login domain, single thing to tell your grandparents, and, very very very importantly, single global search.

There are major differences between "subs"/"rooms" that are fundamentally joined and independently operated protocol hosts that are fundamentally not.

Re: Boy I was wrong about the Fediverse

#152

Post by croes »

scoofy wrote: post #134
croes wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have no problem getting blocked but my only block on the Fediverse was accompanied by a block for all users on the same instance as me.

So start your own instance. You have the right to speak, not the right to be heard.

You are missing the point.

Why where all the others on the same instance blocked?

They did nothing and their only connection to me is we are registered on the same instance.

BTW You have the right to speak, not the right to be heard is nonsense.

By that logic even North Korea has freedom speech.

Freedom of speech just doesn’t mean unlimited reach and limitless speech

Re: Boy I was wrong about the Fediverse

#153

Post by bigbadfeline »

raffael_de wrote: post #101
Arainach wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Community members are a finite resource. Moderators are a downright scare resource. When you let people spew hateful things you drive away the people you want in the community and are left with a toxic cesspool that no one wants to visit. Your moderators will burn out and leave as well. That's a very reliable way for your space to die. Then there's the fact that it takes far more energy to refute bullshit than to spe…

> Moderators are a downright scare resource. if you restrict moderation to stuff like gore and porn, then you don't need that many moderators. > When you let people spew hateful things you drive away the people you want in the community can't people just unfollow or block others whose opinions they don't want to see? > Then there's the fact that it takes far more energy to refute bullshit than to spew it there is no…

> what's there to win? there is nothing to win for anybody. there's only something to lose and that's time.

If there's nothing to win and you're only losing time around here... why are you here in the first place?

Stop losing by trying to convince us how cool it is to lose... because all of your suggestions amount to urging good men to do nothing.

"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing"

Re: Boy I was wrong about the Fediverse

#154

Post by krapp »

BugsJustFindMe wrote: post #151
krapp wrote: post #150

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People join "rooms", "lobbies", "boards", "subs", "groups", "servers" and the like all the time, and deal with moderation rules.

Facebook groups and subreddits became so popular because they're all on centralized websites so you can join many of them all in one place and you can talk to people in all of them through the same platform. Single service, single login domain, single thing to tell your grandparents, and, very very very importantly, single global search. There are major differences between "subs"/"rooms" that are fundamentally joined…

Those differences are not so complex and confusing that you need deep technical skill to figure them out. You can follow anyone from any instance (per the rules, if you're on someone else's instance) or follow hashtags or use relays if you run your own instance (for which numerous services exist.)

The most difficult part of Mastodon is linking to other instances but even that just involves using the search bar.

Re: Boy I was wrong about the Fediverse

#155

Post by BugsJustFindMe »

krapp wrote: post #154
BugsJustFindMe wrote: post #151

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Facebook groups and subreddits became so popular because they're all on centralized websites so you can join many of them all in one place and you can talk to people in all of them through the same platform. Single service, single login domain, single thing to tell your grandparents, and, very very very importantly, single global search. There are major differences between "subs"/"rooms" that are fundamentally joined…

Those differences are not so complex and confusing that you need deep technical skill to figure them out. You can follow anyone from any instance (per the rules, if you're on someone else's instance) or follow hashtags or use relays if you run your own instance (for which numerous services exist.) The most difficult part of Mastodon is linking to other instances but even that just involves using the search bar.

> Those differences are not so complex and confusing

One might ask why Bluesky has more sign-ups and monthly active users acquired in less time even without the facestagram login power funnel that Threads has. And of course Threads has waaaaaayyy more. The evidence of what people want from a social media service is right in front of us and very clear.

This reads to me very much like the timeless words of Seymour Skinner, "Am I so out of touch? No! It's the children who are wrong."

Re: Boy I was wrong about the Fediverse

#156

Post by krapp »

BugsJustFindMe wrote: post #155
krapp wrote: post #154

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Those differences are not so complex and confusing that you need deep technical skill to figure them out. You can follow anyone from any instance (per the rules, if you're on someone else's instance) or follow hashtags or use relays if you run your own instance (for which numerous services exist.) The most difficult part of Mastodon is linking to other instances but even that just involves using the search bar.

> Those differences are not so complex and confusing One might ask why Bluesky has more sign-ups and monthly active users acquired in less time even without the facestagram login power funnel that Threads has. And of course Threads has waaaaaayyy more. The evidence of what people want from a social media service is right in front of us and very clear. This reads to me very much like the timeless words of Seymour Skin…

Bluesky had the benefit of marketing, association with Twitter and the support of influencers and Threads is owned by Meta and is integrated into Facebook. What is that supposed to prove, beyond that advertising companies are good at advertising themselves?

Re: Boy I was wrong about the Fediverse

#157

Post by scoofy »

croes wrote: post #152
scoofy wrote: post #134

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So start your own instance. You have the right to speak, not the right to be heard.

You are missing the point. Why where all the others on the same instance blocked? They did nothing and their only connection to me is we are registered on the same instance. BTW You have the right to speak, not the right to be heard is nonsense. By that logic even North Korea has freedom speech. Freedom of speech just doesn’t mean unlimited reach and limitless speech

In North Korea, you can’t start your own instance to say what you want. They will still jail you for what you say. That’s the actual point.

The fact that other people want to be on a system that blocks you is their business, not yours. The point of the fediverse is you get to choose your own censorship.

Re: Boy I was wrong about the Fediverse

#158

Post by robinsonb5 »

Imustaskforhelp wrote: post #30
robinsonb5 wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've had a vague idea rattling around in the back of my brain for a while now, for some kind of endorsement system using public keys and signatures, so I can apply an endorsement to a particular site (perhaps with some kind of hash of the content so that it expires if the site changes), and get recommendations from others doing the same. When visiting a new site I can see a reputation score based on how many people h…

archive.org + website + linkhut search + username? (Endorsements can work by having the link of ln.ht profile itself being part of another user's Linkhut profile) For example: Suppose you went to fluxer.gg (Open source Discord alternative that I found cool) You searched it upon ln.ht: https://ln.ht/?query=fluxer.gg You can then find the username who uploaded it there (in this case, its me): https://ln.ht/~imafh You c…

It sounds really good - though obviously less automated than what I had in mind. What's needed is something with less friction - which could be achieved using a browser extension - but also needs something to prevent shilling and other forms of abuse. (Or, more to the point, a method by which any user who shills can be easily canned by other users.)

Re: Boy I was wrong about the Fediverse

#159

Post by alsetmusic »

BugsJustFindMe wrote: post #147
krapp wrote: post #145

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've seen plenty of "normal" and non "techie" people on Mastodon. And the point is the complaints about the "complexity" of Mastodon - which isn't really that complex you can literally join an instance as easily as signing up for a subreddit - are disingenuous coming from this crowd.

People don't want to join "an instance". People don't want to care about what "an instance" is which also means being asked to be aware of things like instance-specific moderation rules. And I don't know what it's like now, but cross-server following used to be quite annoying.

> People don't want to care about what "an instance" is which also means being asked to be aware of things like instance-specific moderation rules.

I can tell you how this reads to me: "I consider myself among peers with coders, scientists, and founders. Being asked to understand pretty simple concepts is too much for me."

I am a happy user of Lemmy. Was there more to understand than how to join Reddit? Yes. Is the fediverse simple enough to understand that people on HN should be viewed with incredulity when they make statements that it's too difficult / too much? Unless they're speaking about people who aren't HN commenters, also yes.

Re: Boy I was wrong about the Fediverse

#160

Post by anotherevan »

skybrian wrote: post #106

I'm glad he found interesting people to follow, but since he didn't make any recommendations, it's not really actionable for anyone else. They would be starting from scratch. Results will vary.

True, although I wonder if that was one of the points he is trying to make.

In any case, you could go to his Mastodon account listed at the bottom of the article and check out who he is following.

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