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Mondrian Entered the Public Domain. The Estate Disagrees

copyrightlately.com

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Re: Mondrian Entered the Public Domain. The Estate Disagrees

#151

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Please do get started! You can't just leave hints like that and not give us the full scoop!

:) Let's just say that one day I found myself in the Tate Gallery with a Mondrian that needed some work... tech consultancy takes you into the most interesting places.

Digital conservation type work?

Re: Mondrian Entered the Public Domain. The Estate Disagrees

#152
post #2

As always, copyright is a supressor of creativity, not an enabler. Copyright terms should be 10-20 years max, or up to death of an author. Even current regime is ridiculous.

It's always funny seeing these threads, when it's about AI these people defend copyright to the death. Then when it's about a private IP owner holding onto their IP, it's "death to copyright"

Different people hold different views. I know it can be frustrating to see wildly contradictory positions like that, but one needs to bear in mind that the urge to treat the community as a hive mind isn't rational.

Re: Mondrian Entered the Public Domain. The Estate Disagrees

#153
post #2

As always, copyright is a supressor of creativity, not an enabler. Copyright terms should be 10-20 years max, or up to death of an author. Even current regime is ridiculous.

I would argue that in a digital world, copyright should be inversely scalable to the size of the creator - that is, individual works by independent artists intended for exhibition rather than reproduction should receive more favorable terms than movies or games created by huge conglomerates intended for mass reproduction, licensing, and sale. Or more simply: if you’re not selling it presently, you don’t get copyright…

This my fundamental problem with some of the propositions on this topic here.

I fundamentally disagree to only for one example in a thread here have a copyright of 5 years for a Book Author. Many book authors could never finish their series without their first books becoming public domain or so.

On the other hand Everything created by corporations i.e. where a corporation not a single human holds a copyright can get fucked.

Re: Mondrian Entered the Public Domain. The Estate Disagrees

#154
post #132
post #2

As always, copyright is a supressor of creativity, not an enabler. Copyright terms should be 10-20 years max, or up to death of an author. Even current regime is ridiculous.

Or maybe we have never needed an exclusive economic monopoly on a creative work to encourage the creation of art? Maybe we would all be in a better world were art and culture lived in the collective commons, free for anyone in the zeitgeist to adapt and proliferate? Can we really say commercial production of culture has been truly the best for society?

Fair point but not a very realistic outset. I think changing Copyright to be more fair is realistic. Removing Copyright entirely very unlikely.

Re: Mondrian Entered the Public Domain. The Estate Disagrees

#155

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would argue that in a digital world, copyright should be inversely scalable to the size of the creator - that is, individual works by independent artists intended for exhibition rather than reproduction should receive more favorable terms than movies or games created by huge conglomerates intended for mass reproduction, licensing, and sale. Or more simply: if you’re not selling it presently, you don’t get copyright…

This my fundamental problem with some of the propositions on this topic here. I fundamentally disagree to only for one example in a thread here have a copyright of 5 years for a Book Author. Many book authors could never finish their series without their first books becoming public domain or so. On the other hand Everything created by corporations i.e. where a corporation not a single human holds a copyright can get…

Exactly. This is something I’ve chewed on constantly for nigh on 20 years, and this is the best compromise I’ve been able to come up with. Smaller teams or individual creators need more copyright protections than large corporations, but the law doesn’t reflect that - and it’s why copyright is so widely abused as a result.

This ain’t working for the interests of the public anymore, and AI has exacerbated it (large corps getting settlements, smaller creators getting shafted). We need a new model entirely that addresses these issues.

Re: Mondrian Entered the Public Domain. The Estate Disagrees

#156

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is what I want copyright and patents to be. I could see a case for the initial patent period to go up to 10 years, but more or less operate identically. Make it apply retroactively. Clean, simple, no exceptions, grandfathered special interests, or variations for special industries. This nukes all the exploitative actors in the industry, like the textbook publishing industry, patent trolls, IP hoarders like Sony,…

The only disadvantage I see might be the increase in use of trade secrets if patents no longer look sufficiently attractive. The quid pro quo basically used to be 'tell us your secret sauce and in return you'll get monopoly use for a period. There's a bit of a balancing act. Of course that original concept has been corrupted

Stop legally protecting trade secrets then. Why would we have a system that simultaneously grants a limited benefit for sharing information while granting unlimited protection for not sharing? This obviously creates an incentive to only patent things you expect others will soon figure out anyway, which means the patent only harms society.

Make the incentive "if I don't share my information in exchange for a patent, any of my engineers could leave for a competitor and share all of my information tomorrow anyway." You take the offer society gives, or you get nothing.

Re: Mondrian Entered the Public Domain. The Estate Disagrees

#157
post #146

Earlier quoted context omitted.

“Estimate the stream of payments”… how? Like what is the McDonalds tradework worth? What is tbe stream of payments?

McDonald's trademark is not a copyright, so that's a different process. The trademark is appraisable too, but it's trickier because trademark doesn't expire and the stream of payments may not end. You can look at the history of franchise payments as one measure, and consumer revenues as another measure, but you'll need to discount for the actual product. The corporation broadly accounts for the value of the trademark…

Trademarks are IP; I thought we were taking about a generalized IP tax.

But, ok, copyright.

Who exactly is going to do these audits, find comparable works, etc? For every single copyright (500,000-ish registered in the US per year, far more unregistered but real copyrights)?

And you’d need to audit all existing copyrights… that song may have produced very little revenue, but then a big artist covers it, and the composition rights (but not performance rights) are suddenly worth a lot more.

It all seems like an exercise in applying engineering to law, which never goes well.

Re: Mondrian Entered the Public Domain. The Estate Disagrees

#158
post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

IP is next to impossible to appraise, unlike land. It’s pretty easy to ballpark what a lot of house or office building is worth based on comparables that sold recently. IP doesn’t sell that much and comparisons are harder.

This is actually a solved problem. It is self-assessed valuation with compulsory sale at declared value, known as the Harberger Tax.

My mother wrote some tiny-selling (at the time) books; I own the copyright now. There is zero revenue (which is fine).

Should I be forced to pay something every year to prevent some AI company from bidding $1 and taking ownership?

Re: Mondrian Entered the Public Domain. The Estate Disagrees

#159

Earlier quoted context omitted.

According to the regime this thread is discussing (in observationist's post upthread), 2037. This seems more than fair to me.

Of course it seems fair to you, it's not your IP that's being stolen before you were able to extract all it's worth from.

I'd argue that the question is pretty much what should constitute "stealing" and what doesn't. You're certainly entitled to the opinion that it is, but that's a bit circular in terms of justifying a length of copyright. Not everyone will agree with you on whether it would make sense to consider it "stealing" after a certain length of time.

Looking past that specific word choice, there's an implication here that only the author would have an unbiased opinion on it. I'd argue that they're just as likely to have a bias that would cause them to argue for a policy that is unnecessarily onerous because by the same logic, they're not the ones who would be missing or on anything from it.

Re: Mondrian Entered the Public Domain. The Estate Disagrees

#160
post #2

As always, copyright is a supressor of creativity, not an enabler. Copyright terms should be 10-20 years max, or up to death of an author. Even current regime is ridiculous.

Uh, how are you creative when you make a copy of Mondrian's work?

I can understand some of the arguments for a time limit on copyright, but are you really claiming that you're being "creative" when you cut and paste?

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