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Long Range E-Bike (2021)

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Re: Long Range E-Bike (2021)

#151

Post by davidw »

theultdev wrote: post #134
davidw wrote: post #29

eBikes are such a game changer. I do most of our family of four's grocery shopping with ours. Because of the assist, I find myself more comfortable in a wider range of weather conditions: * If it's hot, I use more assist and there's an instant cooling effect. Much better than climbing into a hot car. * If it's cold, I dress up to be warm outside and if I start to warm up on the ride, I use more assist. I don't have t…

I think we have different grocery habits. Food, beer, and cat litter would be too heavy for a bike.

You don't think a family of four buys 'food' ? I also get beer occasionally, although sometimes I get it from the corner store a few blocks away.

I do get kitty litter with the car on the occasional trip to Costco because I'm not set on using the bike for every last thing. Just that the eBike makes a lot of things a lot more convenient.

Re: Long Range E-Bike (2021)

#152

Post by loeg »

aziaziazi wrote: post #150
loeg wrote: post #140

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is what gearing is for. Get an ebike with a mid-drive motor and some form of gearing -- a conventional derailleur, or an internally geared hub (Shimano makes a decent one, Rohloff makes a great one).

Internal gear hubs are pricy but great. I’ll strongly advise against a conventional derailleur with a mid-drive motor: the derailleur needs a thinner chain which wear faster, especially with a motor that apply more torque than a normal human. Internal hubs allow to use a 1s chain or better: a belt. Then you’re good to go for a loooong time. There’s also the (super expensive) Pignon mid drive with integrated speeds, a…

> thinner chain which wear faster

This gets repeated a lot, but isn't true. Cheaply made single-speed and 6/7/8 chains aren't any more robust than nice modern 10 and 11-speed chains. Shimano CUES (11-speed) works fine for ebikes.

Belts are fine, but less efficient than well-maintained chains. And they require special frames with some way of breaking the rear triangle.

Re: Long Range E-Bike (2021)

#153

Post by WarmWash »

oblio wrote: post #127
zardo wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why would people have a hard time doing 25mph on a pedal assist bike that isn't limited to less than that?

They're talking about riding a regular bike at 25mph. Most people can't sustain that.

Most people cannot sustain it on a 750w mid drive e-bike either.

Re: Long Range E-Bike (2021)

#154

Post by jeffbee »

loeg wrote: post #147
jeffbee wrote: post #72

The aerodynamic situation of a bicycle is so disadvantageous that the easiest way to get a long range e-bike is to simply ride more slowly. People internalize beliefs about energy-range ratios from electric cars, but they don't translate well to bicycles.

The exact same thing applies to electric cars, though -- going slower significantly increases your range.

But cars have much larger constants and linear terms in their efficiency equation and they hit peak efficiency at 15 MPH or higher, whereas a bicycle peaks at half that.

Re: Long Range E-Bike (2021)

#155

Post by oceanplexian »

WarmWash wrote: post #14

Sort of a hijack, but it rides on the awesomeness that e-bikes can bring about. They truly are incredible if you have never gotten to ride one. E-bikes with throttles should not be refereed to as e-bikes E-peds, e-motos, electric motorycle, whatever. Just don't call them ebikes. The problem is people (especially kids) getting what are essentially electric motorcycles, thinking they are ebikes, and then causing all so…

Have you ever owned a motorcycle or are you making up dramatic terminology to prove a point?

The quick e-bikes aren’t motorcycles, not even close. Something in the Sur Ron class (30-40MPH) would be equivalent to a 50cc 2 stroke which you can ride with nothing more than a drivers license. Even then hopped up Talaria’s are a pit bike and don’t remotely approach a low end sports bike.

Fast e-bikes aren’t bicycles but they aren’t motorcycles. We already have a term for that, mopeds and scooters. Instead of banning everything the clear solution would be to treat them the same as mopeds (Have to be 18, wear a helmet, may or may not need a license) and call it a day without all the drama.

Re: Long Range E-Bike (2021)

#156

Post by aziaziazi »

loeg wrote: post #152
aziaziazi wrote: post #150

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Internal gear hubs are pricy but great. I’ll strongly advise against a conventional derailleur with a mid-drive motor: the derailleur needs a thinner chain which wear faster, especially with a motor that apply more torque than a normal human. Internal hubs allow to use a 1s chain or better: a belt. Then you’re good to go for a loooong time. There’s also the (super expensive) Pignon mid drive with integrated speeds, a…

> thinner chain which wear faster This gets repeated a lot, but isn't true. Cheaply made single-speed and 6/7/8 chains aren't any more robust than nice modern 10 and 11-speed chains. Shimano CUES (11-speed) works fine for ebikes. Belts are fine, but less efficient than well-maintained chains. And they require special frames with some way of breaking the rear triangle.

I wasn’t comparing 6/7/8 with 10 and 11 but with 1 speed. Those are indestructible. But as you noted the quality of the chain is also important.

As for the chain you might be right, but a well maintained chain over time needs more work that many wants to invests. It’s an option for the hobbiest and sportmans but not for most of daily commuters which want something that just work, days after days and years after years.

Also, e bike users tends to user the higher speed way more than others so that sprocket wear off faster than others, accelerating wear even more. I’ve replaced many cassettes with all the speeds almost brand new and the faster one totally destroyed.

Re: Long Range E-Bike (2021)

#157

Post by [deleted] »

Aurornis wrote: post #122
majormajor wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

why is the throttle the issue and not just the 45MPH? would it be better with pedals and people peddling along in some only-would-ever-make-sense-on-an-ebike gear, but still going 45? the problem is recklessnesss and speed, restrict and enforce those things, don't just let the bike makers shift the product 10% and re-create exactly the same issue, but "legally"

> why is the throttle the issue and not just the 45MPH? The bikes with throttles are not legally e-bikes, so the products on the market ignore all of the other e-bike restrictions too. They have much more power and higher top speeds. Even if they were fully limited, pedaling ensure more rider engagement and changes how people ride them. When you have to put some effort, however small, into moving the bike around you…

[deleted]

Re: Long Range E-Bike (2021)

#158

Post by socalgal2 »

wintermutestwin wrote: post #68
WarmWash wrote: post #14

Sort of a hijack, but it rides on the awesomeness that e-bikes can bring about. They truly are incredible if you have never gotten to ride one. E-bikes with throttles should not be refereed to as e-bikes E-peds, e-motos, electric motorycle, whatever. Just don't call them ebikes. The problem is people (especially kids) getting what are essentially electric motorcycles, thinking they are ebikes, and then causing all so…

As an oldster who used to do weekly century rides and lost that ability due to nerve damage in my foot (thanks to decades of wearing pointy Italian riding shoes), I’d love it if we could focus on simply enforcing laws that exist rather than saddling arbitrary blanket regulations on lawful citizens. I built an ebike and hell yes I put a throttle on it because it enables me to ride more technical trails. This bike has…

I'm sypathetic but ... unlike cars, bikes don't have large each to read license plates. People will scream about facial recognition. I'm not trying to take away your freedom. I've just wished they'd enforce traffic laws on cyclists but it's just not going to happen and cyclists know it so they almost all break traffic laws with impunity.

Re: Long Range E-Bike (2021)

#159

Post by oceanplexian »

oblio wrote: post #128
parineum wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is what happens when ebike companies take every opportunity to skirt the laws like putting easily removable limiters on motorcycles with pedals and a chain with a gear ratio that makes pedalling practically impossible. I don't know if there was an existing attempt at regulation in NJ specifically but that's happening all around the country. The problem is that, while ebikes have a ton of really good use cases, t…

Why is it even legal to import illegal bikes into a country? Shut this thing at the source, make Amazon & co liable for ebikes that don't respect national legislation. The entire problem disappears in 6 months.

What national legislation are you even talking about?

One that prevents consumers from buying an electric motor and some batteries to run around their own property on? Good luck with that!

Re: Long Range E-Bike (2021)

#160

Post by jandrese »

loeg wrote: post #148
jandrese wrote: post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is kind of a shame that recumbent bikes are expensive and bike nerd coded. A recumbent e-bike with an aeroshell would be fantastically efficient and useful in so many situations, but if you tried to buy one today it is going to cost as much as a car and have everybody else sneering at you.

> recumbent e-bike with an aeroshell The term of art here is "velomobile."

Congratulations. I didn't think they could get any more nerdy and yet you found a way.
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