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FCC asks stations for "pro-America" programming, like daily Pledge of Allegiance

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Re: FCC asks stations for "pro-America" programming, like daily Pledge of Allegiance

#151

Post by UncleMeat »

embedding-shape wrote: post #135
wakawaka28 wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It reminds kids that they live in the United States, and that the country has values, and that they will be expected to defend the country as part of the social contract. I don't know if other countries have pledges like this but on the surface it seems OK to me. I think it also inspires worthwhile conversations about what we owe to the country (or not).

> that the country has values As I've never said "The Pledge of Allegiance", this seems to be the original one, I'm guessing there might be some other modern variation schools use today, but anyways: > I pledge allegiance to my Flag and the Republic for which it stands, one nation, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all. I wouldn't be surprised that most people see it as a joke today, given the "with liberty a…

Today it includes "under God" in the text.

There are really two values expressed in the pledge. "Liberty and justice for all" and "the nation is below God." I'm happy saying that the former is a national value, though it is rarely achieved in practice. The latter... oof.

It is definitely propagandistic. Even if we ignore the religious component, it more expresses an idea that "liberty and justice for all" is already achieved rather than being a goal to strive for.

Re: FCC asks stations for "pro-America" programming, like daily Pledge of Allegiance

#152

Post by nunez »

tolerance wrote: post #130
nunez wrote: post #124

To be the contrarian, I actually don't mind a call for more patriotic programming to celebrate the USA's 250th. That makes sense. I definitely mind the slippery slope this precedent introduces. (Why not just keep doing this?) I'm also concerned that this letter is more of a "mandate" than a "call." Regardless, Carr's letter searches hard for nostalgia. "Schoolhouse Rock" not being in syndication is eroding our nation…

> Does Carr want Netflix to show the Pledge before every stream? The first stream of the day? Are they asking streaming providers to prioritize nationalistic programming in their recommendation algorithms outside of nationalistic holidays? Will they subsidize TV and movies for having a little more freedom in them? So many questions. These scenarios all seem imminent, their precedence not withstanding. In a strange wa…

> Conspiratorially, I’ve read that a lot of production for TV/film is moving overseas

Always has been. A huge amount of US content is filmed in Canada.

Re: FCC asks stations for "pro-America" programming, like daily Pledge of Allegiance

#153

Post by xethos »

netsharc wrote: post #91
tombert wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Honestly I think even without the "under God" part I've always thought it was kind of weird and culty.

Your comment reminds me of what one American college student said in public in Italy. It was 2018, Trump was president, I was on a shuttle bus that takes tourists up and down a viewpoint. It was just leaving the viewpoint when it stops, a man hops in and asks in English "Did anyone see an Apple Watch?". "Yeah, right here!". The first person had forgotten it in the bus, and the second person had found it, and returned…

> "Boy, he's lucky this bus is full of Americans!"

Perhaps only because they have a high likelyhood of speaking English and being able to help him? And sure, many Italians speak English, but if I needed help finding my watch, I like my odds of able to communicate with the Americans over almost any other nationality

Re: FCC asks stations for "pro-America" programming, like daily Pledge of Allegiance

#154

Post by mindslight »

insane_dreamer wrote: post #146
mindslight wrote: post #2

Let's start with some readings of the Declaration of Independence. They promised us another American Revolution. They neglected to mention that they were planning on taking the position of King George and the redcoats.

these truths ... all men* are created equal *white male landowner

That the founders were able to articulate lofty ideals while steeped in being oppressors in multiple ways isn't the condemnation you seem to think it is. Rather it's more commendable that they were able to be so forward thinking, as people with power benefiting from the society they were in. Our modern interpretation of that sentence would most certainly have shocked many of the people who supported it in the context of the time, and yet they were able to draw a rough sketch that we are still appealing to eight generations later as a beacon of progress!

Of course it is important to guard against those who would dredge up that historic context as what "the founders intended" to try and drag us back there, on some rosy vision of the past where all of the problems seem quaint (as they've been addressed in the current day).

Re: FCC asks stations for "pro-America" programming, like daily Pledge of Allegiance

#155

Post by mindslight »

tolerance wrote: post #128
mindslight wrote: post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

By an earnest suggestion from an administration that respects the United States, our freedoms, and our institutions. Not an implicit threat from a wannabe dictator who hangs giant pictures of himself up on government buildings to glorify himself, throws vindictive hissy fits when he doesn't get his way, and rambles at length about how he hates most American values.

How could the current administration appropriately suggest—and how could any institution earnestly commemorate—a democracy with all things considered with respect to its present state?

The fundamental problem is that it can't, because the current administration does not support democracy, which relies on the rule of law. Its leadership style is based on fomenting division to rally true believers, rather than broad-appeal attempts at constructive policy. So appeals to come together to celebrate what we have in common come off as hollow Orwellian doublespeak.

The question is basically in the realm of how do you celebrate someone's birthday when their wife just died? Yes, it's the country's 250 birthday, but we're currently going through a very dark period that does not reflect well onto the lofty ideals we take as our country's founding.

Re: FCC asks stations for "pro-America" programming, like daily Pledge of Allegiance

#156

Post by tolerance »

mindslight wrote: post #155
tolerance wrote: post #128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How could the current administration appropriately suggest—and how could any institution earnestly commemorate—a democracy with all things considered with respect to its present state?

The fundamental problem is that it can't, because the current administration does not support democracy, which relies on the rule of law. Its leadership style is based on fomenting division to rally true believers, rather than broad-appeal attempts at constructive policy. So appeals to come together to celebrate what we have in common come off as hollow Orwellian doublespeak. The question is basically in the realm of…

Thank you for your time here.

Re: FCC asks stations for "pro-America" programming, like daily Pledge of Allegiance

#157

Post by mindslight »

tolerance wrote: post #156
mindslight wrote: post #155

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The fundamental problem is that it can't, because the current administration does not support democracy, which relies on the rule of law. Its leadership style is based on fomenting division to rally true believers, rather than broad-appeal attempts at constructive policy. So appeals to come together to celebrate what we have in common come off as hollow Orwellian doublespeak. The question is basically in the realm of…

Thank you for your time here.

Do you have a constructive point, or are you just doing some vague both sidesism ?

Re: FCC asks stations for "pro-America" programming, like daily Pledge of Allegiance

#159

Post by bdangubic »

duxup wrote: post #158

Compulsory patriotism isn't patriotism ...

The Republican Party is the most un-patriotic Party is the history of the Civilized world. Pretending to love your country while hating its people is really something that will he studied in years to come…

Re: FCC asks stations for "pro-America" programming, like daily Pledge of Allegiance

#160

Post by duxup »

tombert wrote: post #68
dghlsakjg wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Some schools do it some don’t. Participation is never mandatory and retaliation or forcing the pledge is an invitation for an expensive civil rights suit.

Wait, which schools don't do it? I've never heard of a school not doing it. Are there states that don't do the pledge? Even if it's not strictly "mandatory" there can be substantial pressure in conservative areas. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=47095381

I don't think it is always "states" as much as individual school districts / schools.

I know some that don't, it's not announced that they don't and as long as nobody notices I don't think anyone local really cares.

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