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Magnus Carlsen Wins the Freestyle (Chess960) World Championship

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Re: Magnus Carlsen Wins the Freestyle (Chess960) World Championship

#151

Post by Sesse__ »

LogicalRisk wrote: post #126
nilslindemann wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I do not know the time controls anymore, but I always use the latest Stockfish with all available threads. No opening book, but I do not repeat lines to take advantage of that, because I play to train calculation. I guess hash was the (for my setup) normal 4096 MB.

Latest Stockfish with all available threads and no opening book is still well beyond any human. Elo ratings get a bit silly with computers, but we're talking an Elo of well north of 3000.

For reference: The last serious match between the top human player and an engine was Brains in Bahrain, Kramnik–Fritz 7, in 2002 (already that should tell you something). Well, actually a broken and buggy version of Fritz 7, but that's another story. It was a 4–4 tie. On the latest CCRL list, Stockfish 18 outranks Fritz 8 (the oldest Fritz version on the list) by 947 Elo points _on the same hardware_. (For comparison, Magnus Carlsen's peak rating is 65 points higher than Kramnik's peak rating.)

Add to that 24 years of hardware development, and you can imagine why no human player is particularly interested in playing full-strength engines in a non-odds match anymore. Even more so in FRC/Chess960 where you have absolutely zero chance of leading the game into some sort of super-drawish opening to try to hold on to half a point now and then.

Re: Magnus Carlsen Wins the Freestyle (Chess960) World Championship

#152

Post by Sesse__ »

School-Cotton wrote: post #61
Marsymars wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd expect them to have a larger edge in chess960 because humans can't prep openings like in regular chess.

But machines also can’t use opening prep like they do in normal chess.

People have already built Chess960 opening books.

Re: Magnus Carlsen Wins the Freestyle (Chess960) World Championship

#153

Post by Sesse__ »

nilslindemann wrote: post #72

It is not freestyle, it is "play a random position chosen by an algorithm" style. This is boring. Let the players freely place their pieces in the start position, that would be of interest.

Originally Freestyle Chess referred to something else entirely, namely “anything goes” online chess: https://en.chessbase.com/post/scintillating-che-in-the-pal-c...

You were allowed to use engines, opening books and tablebases. You were allowed to play in teams (GMs were part of some). You were even allowed to bribe your opponents into losing! But it died out fairly quickly and now the name has been reused to mean Chess960.

Re: Magnus Carlsen Wins the Freestyle (Chess960) World Championship

#154

Post by enizor2 »

Taek wrote: post #143
Etheryte wrote: post #135

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think motivation really is the key term here. Magnus is a five-time world chess champion, in a complete league of his own even when everyone else was literally only prepping to defeat him. He held the world champion title for ten years and eventually just declined to defend it. And that's relatable, if you're at the absolute top for ten years and no one manages to put a dent to it, what else is there? I think most…

He declined to defend it because he disagreed with the way FIDE was organizing and managing the tournament. I believe this is around the time they threw him out of a tournament for wearing jeans, when he was not the only competitor present in jeans. I think it's nearly universally accepted that his streak ended on a technicality rather than a legitimate decline/defeat.

Absolutely not. He refused to defend his classic title in April 2023, citing a lack of motivation for this format.

The "Jeans" controversy happened during the Rapid championship in December 2024, nearly two years after.

It's universally accepted that his streak Classic Championship ended because of his lack of motivation, not on technicalities.

Re: Magnus Carlsen Wins the Freestyle (Chess960) World Championship

#155

Post by sigmoid10 »

Pay08 wrote: post #145
Taek wrote: post #143

Earlier quoted context omitted.

He declined to defend it because he disagreed with the way FIDE was organizing and managing the tournament. I believe this is around the time they threw him out of a tournament for wearing jeans, when he was not the only competitor present in jeans. I think it's nearly universally accepted that his streak ended on a technicality rather than a legitimate decline/defeat.

From what I recall, he automatically lost that one game but was not thrown out of the tournament. Eventually he just stopped playing the world championship altogether, which is when he lost his title.

I don't really follow human chess, but I wonder what the new nr 1 player thought of themselves after essentially becoming the "best player in the world who doesn't wear jeans." Must be so frustrating to know there is something left to achieve but your league's shenanigans will prevent you from achieving it in an official and prestigious manner.

Re: Magnus Carlsen Wins the Freestyle (Chess960) World Championship

#156

Post by freetime2 »

TheRealPomax wrote: post #49
freetime2 wrote: post #28

How long do chess players typically remain at their peak for? According to wikipedia, Magnus is currently 35. Is it impressive to be winning at 35? Would we expect to see his performance drop off in the next 5-10 years? Even if he is still capable mentally and physically, I would think the stress of training and competing at that level must get old after a while.

You... should watch him stream. That'll pretty much answer your questions. Age is far less relevant to chess compared to keeping up with the current "meta" (in gamer parlance).

Can I ask the significance/reason for the "..." after "you"? Serious question - there may be an age or cultural divide between us and it's not a pattern of speech I'm familiar with. "You should watch him stream" on its own comes across as a friendly suggestion - and I just may do that. The "..." seems to change the tone, and I think possibly add a bit of snark, though I'm not sure if that's how it's intended or why it would be merited.

Re: Magnus Carlsen Wins the Freestyle (Chess960) World Championship

#157

Post by nilslindemann »

bee_rider wrote: post #88
nilslindemann wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Magnus' time will come! But not today. Hasn't Magnus' time already come, and isn't it still Magnus' time? He is #1 on all three lists[1] and so long that I have forgotten when he was not. [1]: https://2700chess.com/

I think they mean his time to be dethroned.

Ah okay.

Re: Magnus Carlsen Wins the Freestyle (Chess960) World Championship

#158

Post by squigz »

nilslindemann wrote: post #72

It is not freestyle, it is "play a random position chosen by an algorithm" style. This is boring. Let the players freely place their pieces in the start position, that would be of interest.

I wouldn't say it's "boring" (hence the downvotes, I imagine) - but this does seem like an interesting idea, to let the players choose their positions. Does such a style exist?

Re: Magnus Carlsen Wins the Freestyle (Chess960) World Championship

#160

Post by tpm »

Jach wrote: post #139
freetime2 wrote: post #28

How long do chess players typically remain at their peak for? According to wikipedia, Magnus is currently 35. Is it impressive to be winning at 35? Would we expect to see his performance drop off in the next 5-10 years? Even if he is still capable mentally and physically, I would think the stress of training and competing at that level must get old after a while.

I think the question is different for the typical chess player compared to those at the very top. And at the very top we don't have that much data... going back to Fischer, he had a short career and disappeared by 32, but not really for lack of ability. For Karpov, his reign lasted about 10 years from age 24-34, but even after that he was in the top 3 or top 5 for another 15 years until he retired in his 50s. Kasparo…

> his same-generation rival Karpov

Karpov is 12 years older than Kasparov.

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