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Platforms bend over backward to help DHS censor ICE critics, advocates say

arstechnica.com

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Re: Platforms bend over backward to help DHS censor ICE critics, advocates say

#151

Post by snypher »

gruez wrote: post #67
amelius wrote: post #12

Including Apple. If it's that easy, how long do we really expect Advanced Data Protection to be free from government backdooring?

>If it's that easy, how long do we really expect Advanced Data Protection to be free from government backdooring? Taking down an app is hardly unprecedented. Forcing companies to add backdoors in secret is, so it's a stretch to think that ADP is compromised.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Room_641A

Literal back door, in secret. I doubt things have gotten better since this.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_security_letter

The company couldn't say, even if they wanted to.

Re: Platforms bend over backward to help DHS censor ICE critics, advocates say

#152

Post by embedding-shape »

api wrote: post #138
embedding-shape wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And ultimately the consequences of both group is the same. The only way to get rid of fascism is to fight against it, there is no "neutral" position possible unfortunately.

I agree. I’m just saying that public companies have less power against the state than you think they do.

We're not talking about public companies being "fully aligned culturally" or not though, we're talking about individuals who have as much choice as everyone else, if not more, to align themselves or not.

Re: Platforms bend over backward to help DHS censor ICE critics, advocates say

#153

Post by treetalker »

cadamsdotcom wrote: post #148
treetalker wrote: post #123

As an anecdote, a few days ago Kagi's Research (Experimental) model had no problem generating critical images of Trump and Vance. But yesterday it expressly refused to generate the likeness of Pam Bondi. (This is surely the underlying component models' censuring, not Kagi's.)

That’s anecdotal evidence demonstrating the wonders of simple probability. There’s so much opacity to refusals that claims like this (currently) can’t have enough rigor to be used to make an argument. To strongly make the claim you’re making you’d have had to perform extensive before/after tests to be able to compare. That said - the lack of transparency that’s making you feel uncomfortable with this whole thing, tha…

I don't disagree. Like I said, just an anecdote.

I'm curious to have other Kagi subscribers try it out to see what can and cannot be done.

Re: Platforms bend over backward to help DHS censor ICE critics, advocates say

#154

Post by HighGoldstein »

RickJWagner wrote: post #150
mindslight wrote: post #133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The video evidence shows beyond peradventure that Renee Good didn't strike an ICE agent Let's not get caught up arguing about the play-by-play details. There will always be rabid disagreement regardless of merit, causing us to miss the crux of the matter. The important big-picture dynamic is that the agent set up the situation so he'd have an excuse to kill the next person who tried to drive away from him, directly…

[flagged]

> Struck the ICE agent with her car

One of the above comments gives a pretty clear cut showcase of how this is not, in fact, a fact.

> I think they both contributed to the tragedy.

"Between me and Jeff Bezos we are worth several hundred billion dollars". The ICE agent contributed the bullets that made this a tragedy, the victim contributed not following the orders of people who are not police officers, I'd say it's not much of a "both" situation.

> Nobody protesting peacefully gets shot.

At least one person already has, but something tells me you'll just move the goalpost of what "peacefully" means.

Re: Platforms bend over backward to help DHS censor ICE critics, advocates say

#155

Post by embedding-shape »

yoyohello13 wrote: post #139
embedding-shape wrote: post #127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> business success is closely tied to how much Trump likes you And I'd still make the same point I've done so many times before; sometimes maybe there are more important things than "business makes much money so I make much money".

Yes 100%! I’m not saying I condone or agree with what’s happening. Just pointing out the reality.

> Just pointing out the reality

I'm just disagreeing with that "To survive as a large entity during this administration you have to kiss the ring" is actually the reality. The reality as I see it is that individuals want to make money, lots of money, and authoritarianism is more favorable for that.

They'll still make lots of money if they fight against it. But they'll make less.

Re: Platforms bend over backward to help DHS censor ICE critics, advocates say

#156

Post by wolvoleo »

bigyabai wrote: post #84
gruez wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>If it's that easy, how long do we really expect Advanced Data Protection to be free from government backdooring? Taking down an app is hardly unprecedented. Forcing companies to add backdoors in secret is, so it's a stretch to think that ADP is compromised.

> Forcing companies to add backdoors in secret is We have precedent: https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2023/12/apple-admits-to-... Apple has since confirmed in a statement provided to Ars that the US federal government “prohibited” the company “from sharing any information,”

To be fair, most apps are guarding against this now by having the push notifications contain just a wake-up signal, the app then wakes up and retrieves the real content.

Re: Platforms bend over backward to help DHS censor ICE critics, advocates say

#157

Post by pocksuppet »

ttul wrote: post #33

I wonder how much the tech bros are going to regret having bent over for Trump in 2028 when a Democrat is sitting in the Whitehouse looking at rolling out some retribution using the new legal tools the Trump team succeeded in securing during his second term. We might see some heavy regulation descending onto the industry as a response. On the other hand, the long term trend of billionaires and large companies getting…

Why would the Democrats do that?

Re: Platforms bend over backward to help DHS censor ICE critics, advocates say

#158

Post by pocksuppet »

OutOfHere wrote: post #31
jmclnx wrote: post #7

What a surprise, IIRC in Hong Kong there was a platform that was fully decentralized. HK protesters used it on their phones during their uprising and China could not block it. Maybe it is time people move to that. Sadly I forgot its name or where to get it. Of course the app stores could block that too. There is always USENET I guess. I wonder if there are apps on Cell Phones that can access USENET and format the pos…

A centralized platform with marginally cleverer cryptography can technically allow posts and comments to belong to a user, but not be traceable back to the user! When asked by the government who made a particular post or comment, it should not be possible for the platform to readily identify who made it. Of course the IP address should not be tracked either, certainly not beyond 1h. The logged in user would still be…

Why not just set the author ID to null?

Re: Platforms bend over backward to help DHS censor ICE critics, advocates say

#159

Post by pocksuppet »

logicchains wrote: post #101
ggfdh wrote: post #14

Now that it’s targeting dems, maybe can get some bipartisan support to limit government power here.

That'll never work; what works is building un-censorable platforms, that cannot be banned in the same way it's impossible to ban torrents no matter how hard they try.

And the platform will simply be banned and its creators (if identifiable) arrested. See Tornadocash. Still operating, because it's uncensorable, but the people who made it will never see daylight again.

Re: Platforms bend over backward to help DHS censor ICE critics, advocates say

#160

Post by culi »

amelius wrote: post #12

Including Apple. If it's that easy, how long do we really expect Advanced Data Protection to be free from government backdooring?

They recently started requiring you to set a safety person instead of just giving you a code to write down... Smells
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