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Switzerland to vote on capping population at 10M

nytimes.com

151–160 of 174 posts

Re: Switzerland to vote on capping population at 10M

#151
post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe work on changing zoning laws instead of pandering to farmers and rural cantons?

Social housing programs have historically doubled or tripled housing construction. Has changing zoning laws historically ever boosted housing construction by more than 10%?

I am happy with any method that increases housing, whether its government made housing programs or easing of zoning laws. Why see a conflict when both are contributing to the same goal?

Re: Switzerland to vote on capping population at 10M

#152

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe work on changing zoning laws instead of pandering to farmers and rural cantons?

Citizens can choose to prioritize quality of life over maximizing housing stock to increase the domestic population. “We’re all full up.” It is their country after all, it is their choice. Those who want in are not stakeholders nor have a vote.

For every other product the default stance is to try to get maximum features out of minimum price. With housing its the literal opposite. People take pride in how expensive houses are. Houses are treated as investments because houses are expensive. People won't worry about houses getting cheaper after they bought it if houses were like a toothbrush or a razor blade. Give me reasons why housing shouldn't be turned into a product so cheap and by default decent quality that people buy and throw it? You may say its hard or impossible, but would you say its a bad goal in itself?

Re: Switzerland to vote on capping population at 10M

#153

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Citizens can choose to prioritize quality of life over maximizing housing stock to increase the domestic population. “We’re all full up.” It is their country after all, it is their choice. Those who want in are not stakeholders nor have a vote.

For every other product the default stance is to try to get maximum features out of minimum price. With housing its the literal opposite. People take pride in how expensive houses are. Houses are treated as investments because houses are expensive. People won't worry about houses getting cheaper after they bought it if houses were like a toothbrush or a razor blade. Give me reasons why housing shouldn't be turned int…

I don’t have to give you reasons, those putting forth these proposals have their reasons and potentially the votes required to pass it. Economic rationality or consideration of potential immigrants wanting inexpensive housing somewhere they aren’t a citizen are not factors.

If Switzerland doesn’t want high population density throughout their country for quality of life reasons, that’s a choice, through their votes. If you don’t have a vote, you don’t get a say. There’s 8B+ humans on the planet and that will peak between ~9-10B before the end of the century, not everyone is going to get to live where they want to live during their life and runtime on the timeline. Is it sad and/or unfortunate? It just is.

Re: Switzerland to vote on capping population at 10M

#154

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For every other product the default stance is to try to get maximum features out of minimum price. With housing its the literal opposite. People take pride in how expensive houses are. Houses are treated as investments because houses are expensive. People won't worry about houses getting cheaper after they bought it if houses were like a toothbrush or a razor blade. Give me reasons why housing shouldn't be turned int…

I don’t have to give you reasons, those putting forth these proposals have their reasons and potentially the votes required to pass it. Economic rationality or consideration of potential immigrants wanting inexpensive housing somewhere they aren’t a citizen are not factors. If Switzerland doesn’t want high population density throughout their country for quality of life reasons, that’s a choice, through their votes. I…

Its the opposite of quality of life. Immigrants are irrelevant to it. Higher housing costs benefit nobody, local or immigrant. In no place in earth are housing costs coming down, so no matter immigrant or not we need to build housing at a mass scale just to have a fighting chance against rising prices. Making this about immigrants is bullshit. Refusing to build houses is utter bullshit, its the opposite of quality of life. It leads to crap quality of life and then people whine and cry and ask for more self destructive crap further spiraling into crap. Making houses cheap benefits everyone, keeping houses expensive harms everyone.

Re: Switzerland to vote on capping population at 10M

#155

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don’t have to give you reasons, those putting forth these proposals have their reasons and potentially the votes required to pass it. Economic rationality or consideration of potential immigrants wanting inexpensive housing somewhere they aren’t a citizen are not factors. If Switzerland doesn’t want high population density throughout their country for quality of life reasons, that’s a choice, through their votes. I…

Its the opposite of quality of life. Immigrants are irrelevant to it. Higher housing costs benefit nobody, local or immigrant. In no place in earth are housing costs coming down, so no matter immigrant or not we need to build housing at a mass scale just to have a fighting chance against rising prices. Making this about immigrants is bullshit. Refusing to build houses is utter bullshit, its the opposite of quality of…

And building over every piece of land available diminishes quality of life in someplace like Switzerland with physically constrained geography.

Re: Switzerland to vote on capping population at 10M

#156
post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Social housing programs have historically doubled or tripled housing construction. Has changing zoning laws historically ever boosted housing construction by more than 10%?

I am happy with any method that increases housing, whether its government made housing programs or easing of zoning laws. Why see a conflict when both are contributing to the same goal?

I would prefer it if solutions which doubled housing constuction rates were promoted above solutions which housing developers lobbied the hardest for but which will barely move the needle.

They are also competing for the same land, which is the commodity that is actually in short supply.

Re: Switzerland to vote on capping population at 10M

#157

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Its the opposite of quality of life. Immigrants are irrelevant to it. Higher housing costs benefit nobody, local or immigrant. In no place in earth are housing costs coming down, so no matter immigrant or not we need to build housing at a mass scale just to have a fighting chance against rising prices. Making this about immigrants is bullshit. Refusing to build houses is utter bullshit, its the opposite of quality of…

And building over every piece of land available diminishes quality of life in someplace like Switzerland with physically constrained geography.

Then they should make death chambers for people if they think they are full. At 9 million people, they could choose to live nicely with 4000 sq m lots per person or they can keep crying about housing prices while not doing the one tried and tested solution capitalism offers to high prices. Even if we take out untenable mountain land, how much does that leave us? There is no place on earth that is lacking land for housing. Its a self created problem.

Re: Switzerland to vote on capping population at 10M

#158

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Its the opposite of quality of life. Immigrants are irrelevant to it. Higher housing costs benefit nobody, local or immigrant. In no place in earth are housing costs coming down, so no matter immigrant or not we need to build housing at a mass scale just to have a fighting chance against rising prices. Making this about immigrants is bullshit. Refusing to build houses is utter bullshit, its the opposite of quality of…

And building over every piece of land available diminishes quality of life in someplace like Switzerland with physically constrained geography.

To keep things in context, this entire comment chain is downstream of someone complaining about housing prices.

Re: Switzerland to vote on capping population at 10M

#159

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Its the opposite of quality of life. Immigrants are irrelevant to it. Higher housing costs benefit nobody, local or immigrant. In no place in earth are housing costs coming down, so no matter immigrant or not we need to build housing at a mass scale just to have a fighting chance against rising prices. Making this about immigrants is bullshit. Refusing to build houses is utter bullshit, its the opposite of quality of…

And building over every piece of land available diminishes quality of life in someplace like Switzerland with physically constrained geography.

Who's to say they don't already have too much housing? People proposing this policy should lead by example and have their own houses demolished.

Re: Switzerland to vote on capping population at 10M

#160

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Citizens can choose to prioritize quality of life over maximizing housing stock to increase the domestic population. “We’re all full up.” It is their country after all, it is their choice. Those who want in are not stakeholders nor have a vote.

It's amazing how quickly globalists were able to get the ideological left to switch from having riots protesting against globalism to declaring it racist to have any anti-globalist thoughts. Even more amazing are the intellectual knots they'll tie themselves up into when explaining how this came to be. The participants of the Battle of Seattle in 1999 now would be considered Nazis.

What is "globalism"?
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