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Amazon Ring's lost dog ad sparks backlash amid fears of mass surveillance

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Re: Amazon Ring's lost dog ad sparks backlash amid fears of mass surveillance

#151

Post by apparent »

The situation with the Nancy Guthrie disappearance and Nest camera footage is related, and interesting. It seems that she had a Nest doorbell camera, but didn't pay for the subscription plan ($100/yr?). As a result, the camera records short snippets but doesn't save them to the cloud in a user-accessible way.

After a week, Google finally hunted down/coughed up the footage. I imagine there were some people within Google who realized that if they provided the footage immediately, then it could discourage people from paying for the subscription.

Of course, they must also realize that by not providing the footage sooner, they may have allowed the perp to get away, or the victim to be killed.

Re: Amazon Ring's lost dog ad sparks backlash amid fears of mass surveillance

#152

Post by foobarian »

koolba wrote: post #37
mjr00 wrote: post #20

The Dark Knight was released in 2008. In that movie, Batman hijacks citizens' cellphones to track down the Joker, and it's presented as a major moral and ethical dilemma as part of the movie's overall themes. The only way Batman remains a "good guy" in the eyes of the audience is by destroying the entire thing once he's done. Crazy to think that less than two decades later, an even more powerful surveillance technolo…

> The only way Batman remains a "good guy" in the eyes of the audience is by destroying the entire thing once he's done. A key part of that is when he tells Alfred that he did not even trust himself with that level of surveillance and coded it to only grant access to Alfred. Further, Alfred agrees to aid Batman by accessing the data but simultaneously tenders his resignation. I doubt Amazon has anyone like Alfred in…

These kinds of resignations are interesting. The character is such a good protagonist, he resigns rather than do Bad Thing. But that pretty much guarantees the boss will hire someone more pliable. Why not instead swallow the pride and do Bad Thing but with some level of moderation? That would surely be a better outcome overall.

The argument is that it would destroy the character's honor or whatever. But that is also a kind of sacrifice for the greater good. Maybe a lot of those are in fact happening but just not visible.

Re: Amazon Ring's lost dog ad sparks backlash amid fears of mass surveillance

#153

Post by hdgvhicv »

izacus wrote: post #123
wat10000 wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most (all?) of Batman is based on the idea that sometimes you need a good guy who operates outside of the law. Given that Batman isn't real but the problems he encounters often are real, the natural conclusion is that we should make up for our low Batman levels by letting law enforcement off the chain. But this is hardly unique to Nolan. Probably 90% of Hollywood movies that involve crime have this message in some fo…

The fact that Batman is an ultra wealthy 1 % which dishes out justice with his expensive toys while hiding from most of the authorities is also quite a message.

It’s not uncommon. Green Arrow the same.

The popular ones with extra-human abilities - Flash, Superman, Spiderman, Captain America, etc, have more normal backgrounds.

Boys with toys though - Batman, Ironman, The Atom, are the 1%. Ant Man I guess is more normal, but he stole his suit (but Hank Pym was reasonably normal too)

Re: Amazon Ring's lost dog ad sparks backlash amid fears of mass surveillance

#154

Post by warkdarrior »

toephu2 wrote: post #135
nilamo wrote: post #129

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's beside the point? Gaining security by losing freedom was always on the table. What's interesting is the cultural shift toward not caring about losing freedom.

Everything I want to do in public I can still do. What "freedom" is lost? I gain security and lose no freedoms (unless you are doing something illegal). When property crime is up 53%.. plenty of people are willing to lose "freedom" whatever you are referring to, in exchange for safety.

You were recorded smoking marijuana, an illegal drug at the federal level.

You were recorded walking into an abortion clinic, although face recognition identified as a resident of a state where abortion is illegal.

Re: Amazon Ring's lost dog ad sparks backlash amid fears of mass surveillance

#155

Post by koolba »

polar wrote: post #39
koolba wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The only way Batman remains a "good guy" in the eyes of the audience is by destroying the entire thing once he's done. A key part of that is when he tells Alfred that he did not even trust himself with that level of surveillance and coded it to only grant access to Alfred. Further, Alfred agrees to aid Batman by accessing the data but simultaneously tenders his resignation. I doubt Amazon has anyone like Alfred in…

> Alfred Wasn't it Lucius Fox?

Oh you’re night! I had Morgan Freeman’s face in my mind too.

Re: Amazon Ring's lost dog ad sparks backlash amid fears of mass surveillance

#157

Post by whattheheckheck »

chrisrogers wrote: post #121
mjr00 wrote: post #20

The Dark Knight was released in 2008. In that movie, Batman hijacks citizens' cellphones to track down the Joker, and it's presented as a major moral and ethical dilemma as part of the movie's overall themes. The only way Batman remains a "good guy" in the eyes of the audience is by destroying the entire thing once he's done. Crazy to think that less than two decades later, an even more powerful surveillance technolo…

My read is that it's immoral because it's a surveillance hijack without the knowledge of the users, as opposed to an opt-in.

And its not just opt in for the camera owner/licensor it should be explicitly optin for anyone who gets recorded

Re: Amazon Ring's lost dog ad sparks backlash amid fears of mass surveillance

#158

Post by awakeasleep »

foobarian wrote: post #152
koolba wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The only way Batman remains a "good guy" in the eyes of the audience is by destroying the entire thing once he's done. A key part of that is when he tells Alfred that he did not even trust himself with that level of surveillance and coded it to only grant access to Alfred. Further, Alfred agrees to aid Batman by accessing the data but simultaneously tenders his resignation. I doubt Amazon has anyone like Alfred in…

These kinds of resignations are interesting. The character is such a good protagonist, he resigns rather than do Bad Thing. But that pretty much guarantees the boss will hire someone more pliable. Why not instead swallow the pride and do Bad Thing but with some level of moderation? That would surely be a better outcome overall. The argument is that it would destroy the character's honor or whatever. But that is also…

Dr John wrote a song about this dilemma, “Such a Night”

Re: Amazon Ring's lost dog ad sparks backlash amid fears of mass surveillance

#159

Post by HiPhish »

pibaker wrote: post #76

There would be less backlash to the Ring ad if the ad was honest about how people actually use it. Show us porch pirates, burglars and stupid neighbor who backs into your car being caught on camera. But instead, they have to come up with something "wholesome" like finding your lost doggo. The wholesomeness is so forced and cringe that it makes you think they have something to hide. It almost feels like the people who…

> porch pirates

It absolutely boggles my mind that it's legal in the US for a deliverer to just leave a package out in the open for anyone to pick up and consider it "delivered". Might as well just throw it out of the window of your car, it has the same chance of getting picked up by the recipient. Where I live the package has to be handed over to the recipient. If the recipient is not available it will be handed over to a neighbour and this will be noted on a little card that's placed in the recipient's mail box. If that is not possible it will be taken back to the mail office and the recipient can pick it up in person.

Adding video surveillance is no solution. OK, so you saw a random stranger pick up your package. Now what? What are you going to do with that information? Are the police going to start a manhunt because of your 50$ Amazon order?

Re: Amazon Ring's lost dog ad sparks backlash amid fears of mass surveillance

#160

Post by yibg »

toephu2 wrote: post #125
thewebguyd wrote: post #118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Me, absolutely not. Unfortunately, my opinion seems to be increasingly in the minority and more and more people will happily be surveilled for even just an illusory promise of safety. The harsh truth is that safety/security can never be guaranteed. No amount of surveillance will 100% prevent any individual from being a victim of a crime. Surveillance might help catching the criminal to face justice afterwards, but it…

There is no expectation of privacy in the public setting though. Anyone can record you in public without your permission. > No amount of surveillance will 100% prevent any individual from being a victim of a crime. No, but if it reduces crime by 99% would you be in favor of it? (See South Korea, Taiwan, Singapore.. examples of democratic countries with CCTVs all over the public space.. and before you say well those a…

South Korea, Taiwan and Singapore all had significantly lower crime rates before CCTVs were all over the public space.

EDIT: also, most crime happens at home, so if you really want a large reduction put cameras in everyone's home too.

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