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Retiring GPT-4o, GPT-4.1, GPT-4.1 mini, and OpenAI o4-mini in ChatGPT

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Re: Retiring GPT-4o, GPT-4.1, GPT-4.1 mini, and OpenAI o4-mini in ChatGPT

#151

Post by eru »

12345ieee wrote: post #124
marrone12 wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Advertising is not a recent evolution of capitalism, it's a foundational piece of it. Whatever you do as a job would not exist if there was no one marketing it. This hostility seems insane.

The early theorists of capitalism didn't imagine that advanced psychology (that didn't even exist back then) would be used to convince people to buy $product. Messages of that sophistication are always dangerous, and modern advertising is the most widespread example of it. The hostility is more than justified, I can only hope the whole industry is regulated downwards, even if whatever company I work for sells less.

> Messages of that sophistication [...]

By demonising them, you are making ads sounds way more glamorous than they are.

Re: Retiring GPT-4o, GPT-4.1, GPT-4.1 mini, and OpenAI o4-mini in ChatGPT

#152

Post by fpgaminer »

arrowsmith wrote: post #78
fpgaminer wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well yeah, because 5.2 is the default and there's no way to change the default. So every time you open up a new chat you either use 5.2 or go out of your way to select something else. (I'm particularly annoyed by this UI choice because I always have to switch back to 5.1)

What about 5.1 do you prefer over 5.2?

As far as I can tell 5.2 is the stronger model on paper, but it's been optimized to think less and do less web searches. I daily drive Thinking variants, not Auto or Instant, and usually want the _right_ answer even if it takes a minute. 5.1 does a very good job of defensively web searching, which avoids almost all of its hallucinations and keeps docs/APIs/UIs/etc up-to-date. 5.2 will instead often not think at all, even in Thinking mode. I've gotten several completely wrong, hallucinated answers since 5.2 came out, whereas maybe a handful from 5.1. (Even with me using 5.2 far less!)

The same seems to persist in Codex CLI, where again 5.2 doesn't spend as much time thinking so its solutions never come out as nicely as 5.1's.

That said, 5.1 is obviously slower for these reasons. I'm fine with that trade off. Others might have lighter workloads and thus benefit more from 5.2's speed.

Re: Retiring GPT-4o, GPT-4.1, GPT-4.1 mini, and OpenAI o4-mini in ChatGPT

#153

Post by cm2012 »

make3 wrote: post #88
cm2012 wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is why I work in direct performance advertising. Our work reveals the truth!

Your work exploits people's addictive propensity and behaviours, and gives corporations incentives and tools to build on that. Insane spin you're putting on it. At best, you're a cog in one of the worst recent evolutions of capitalism.

Exploitative ads are a small minority. I also think gambling advertising should be banned.

Re: Retiring GPT-4o, GPT-4.1, GPT-4.1 mini, and OpenAI o4-mini in ChatGPT

#154

Post by eru »

toxic72 wrote: post #112
europeanNyan wrote: post #86

After they pushed the limits on the Thinking models to 3000 per week, I haven't touched anything else. I am really satisfied with their performance and the 200k context windows is quite nice. I've been using Gemini exclusively for the 1 million token context window, but went back to ChatGPT after the raise of the limits and created a Project system for myself which allows me to have much better organization with Proj…

I REALLY struggle with Gemini 3 Pro refusing to perform web searches / getting combative with the current date. Ironically their flash model seems much more likely to opt for web search for info validation. Not sure if others have seen this... I could attribute it to: 1. It's known quantity with the pro models (I recall that the pro/thinking models from most providers were not immediately equipped with web search too…

Gemini refused to believe that I was using MacOS 26.

Re: Retiring GPT-4o, GPT-4.1, GPT-4.1 mini, and OpenAI o4-mini in ChatGPT

#156

Post by flexagoon »

azan_ wrote: post #137
tgtweak wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Very curious for what use cases you're finding gemini unusable.

Scientific research and proof-reading. Gemini is the laziest LLM I've used. Frequently he will lie that he searched for something and just make stuff up, basically never happens to me when I'm using gpt5.2.

Do you use it directly? I've only used it though Kagi Assistant but it works better than any other model for me

Re: Retiring GPT-4o, GPT-4.1, GPT-4.1 mini, and OpenAI o4-mini in ChatGPT

#157

Post by cm2012 »

losteric wrote: post #128
marrone12 wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Advertising is not a recent evolution of capitalism, it's a foundational piece of it. Whatever you do as a job would not exist if there was no one marketing it. This hostility seems insane.

Advertising always seems like a prisoner’s dilemma. If no one advertised, people would still buy things.

Yes but the advantage would be much more towards incumbents

Re: Retiring GPT-4o, GPT-4.1, GPT-4.1 mini, and OpenAI o4-mini in ChatGPT

#158

Post by azan_ »

flexagoon wrote: post #156
azan_ wrote: post #137

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Scientific research and proof-reading. Gemini is the laziest LLM I've used. Frequently he will lie that he searched for something and just make stuff up, basically never happens to me when I'm using gpt5.2.

Do you use it directly? I've only used it though Kagi Assistant but it works better than any other model for me

Yes, only directly (I mean through the default gemini interface, not API).

Re: Retiring GPT-4o, GPT-4.1, GPT-4.1 mini, and OpenAI o4-mini in ChatGPT

#159

Post by ekianjo »

chilmers wrote: post #114
leumon wrote: post #73

> We’re continuing to make progress toward a version of ChatGPT designed for adults over 18, grounded in the principle of treating adults like adults, and expanding user choice and freedom within appropriate safeguards. To support this, we’ve rolled out age prediction for users under 18 in most markets. https://help.openai.com/en/articles/12652064-age-prediction-... interesting

Sexual and intimate chat with LLMs will be a huge market for whoever corners it. They'd be crazy to leave that money on the table.

That market is for local models right now.

Re: Retiring GPT-4o, GPT-4.1, GPT-4.1 mini, and OpenAI o4-mini in ChatGPT

#160

Post by Macha »

Scene_Cast2 wrote: post #65
NewsaHackO wrote: post #49

>We brought GPT‑4o back after hearing clear feedback from a subset of Plus and Pro users, who told us they needed more time to transition key use cases, like creative ideation, and that they preferred GPT‑4o’s conversational style and warmth. This does verify the idea that OpenAI does not make models sycophantic due to attempted subversion by buttering up users so that that they use the product more, its because peop…

As someone who's worked with population data, I found that there is an enormous rift between reported opinion (and HN and reddit opinion) vs revealed (through experimentation) population preferences.

I always thought that the idea that "revealed preferences" are preferences, discounts that people often make decisions they would rather not. It's like the whole idea that if you're on a diet, it's easier to not have junk food in the house to begin with than to have junk food and not eat more than your target amount. Are you saying these people want to put on weight? Or is it just they've been put in a situation that defeats their impulse control?

I feel a lot of the "revealed preference" stuff in advertising is similar in advertisers finding that if they get past the easier barriers that users put in place, then really it's easier to sell them stuff that at a higher level the users do not want.

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