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My Mom and Dr. DeepSeek (2025)

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Re: My Mom and Dr. DeepSeek (2025)

#151

Post by noshitsherlock »

tedggh wrote: post #110
kingstnap wrote: post #12

> she said she was aware that DeepSeek had given her contradictory advice. She understood that chatbots were trained on data from across the internet, she told me, and did not represent an absolute truth or superhuman authority With highly lucid people like the author's mom I'm not too worried about Dr. Deepseek. I'm actually incredibly bullish on the fact that AI models are, as the article describes, superhumanly em…

My experience with doctors in the US is that they often not only give you contradictory advice but just bad plain advice with complete lack of common sense. It feels like they are regurgitating medical school textbooks without a context window. I truly believe doctors, most specialists and definitely all general practitioners, are easily replaceable with the tech we have today. The only obstacle is regulations, insur…

Just my observation as a sixty-something year old, and my attempt to understand the changes I’ve seen… It seems like these days doctors advice and hospital emergency procedures are mostly (and increasingly so) based on statistical likelihoods of outcomes (from where exactly I’m not sure; and who vetted them??) and a set of options that insurance companies will pay for, probably determined similarly. Probably will get worse until AI gets inserted into the loop. I also wonder if perhaps this is occurring to accommodate a reduction of the typical skill set of the “wellness” oriented practitioners most of us see for check-ups and emergencies. I have received good care from specialists by and large.

Re: My Mom and Dr. DeepSeek (2025)

#152

Post by seanmcdirmid »

yangcheng wrote: post #150

While the article emphasis on chaos and short time with China's doctor, they are very accessible, 2 USD you visit a fully trained doctor at top hospital, have your CT scan done the same day with 50 USD even if you pay out of packet. As for AI, my personal experience is ChatGPT and Gemini is more effective then DeepSeek for healthcare issues. I do hope DeepSeek or Doubao can catch up.

I’m sure that’s a state owned hospital and not a private hospital. The last time I went to a private hospital in Beijing for my yearly checkup I paid 100 RMB for my part of the checkup cost (I also had private local insurance and was eligible to use public hospitals, but never had time for that).

Re: My Mom and Dr. DeepSeek (2025)

#153

Post by noshitsherlock »

noshitsherlock wrote: post #151
tedggh wrote: post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My experience with doctors in the US is that they often not only give you contradictory advice but just bad plain advice with complete lack of common sense. It feels like they are regurgitating medical school textbooks without a context window. I truly believe doctors, most specialists and definitely all general practitioners, are easily replaceable with the tech we have today. The only obstacle is regulations, insur…

Just my observation as a sixty-something year old, and my attempt to understand the changes I’ve seen… It seems like these days doctors advice and hospital emergency procedures are mostly (and increasingly so) based on statistical likelihoods of outcomes (from where exactly I’m not sure; and who vetted them??) and a set of options that insurance companies will pay for, probably determined similarly. Probably will get…

Cost cutting and austerity measures for the peons is my other hypothesis.

Re: My Mom and Dr. DeepSeek (2025)

#154

Post by yangcheng »

seanmcdirmid wrote: post #152
yangcheng wrote: post #150

While the article emphasis on chaos and short time with China's doctor, they are very accessible, 2 USD you visit a fully trained doctor at top hospital, have your CT scan done the same day with 50 USD even if you pay out of packet. As for AI, my personal experience is ChatGPT and Gemini is more effective then DeepSeek for healthcare issues. I do hope DeepSeek or Doubao can catch up.

I’m sure that’s a state owned hospital and not a private hospital. The last time I went to a private hospital in Beijing for my yearly checkup I paid 100 RMB for my part of the checkup cost (I also had private local insurance and was eligible to use public hospitals, but never had time for that).

Best doctors in China works at state owned hospitals. They may choose to retire or work part time at private hospitals

Re: My Mom and Dr. DeepSeek (2025)

#155

Post by seanmcdirmid »

yangcheng wrote: post #154
seanmcdirmid wrote: post #152

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’m sure that’s a state owned hospital and not a private hospital. The last time I went to a private hospital in Beijing for my yearly checkup I paid 100 RMB for my part of the checkup cost (I also had private local insurance and was eligible to use public hospitals, but never had time for that).

Best doctors in China works at state owned hospitals. They may choose to retire or work part time at private hospitals

Yes, but they are inconvenient, you had to line up in the morning for an appointment when I lived in Beijing, and scalpers would commonly grab most of the tickets early to sell to you for a few hundred RMB. I hear they have a better system now, something based on WeChat without the scalping.

Private hospitals were mostly staffed by doctors from Eastern Europe and Iran, at least the one I went to (UFH in Lido, Beijing), lots of rich Chinese customers. It was comfortable and you just made an appointment on the phone. You got to wait in a nice waiting room with a plush couch rather than a concrete brutaleski waiting room with plastic chairs, private birthing rooms for babies rather than a community birthing room.

Re: My Mom and Dr. DeepSeek (2025)

#156

Post by Spooky23 »

machomaster wrote: post #144
Spooky23 wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The US has the same issue. Because the republican party turned out to be a bunch of fascist fucks, there's no real critique of Obamacare. One of the big changes with the ACA is that it allowed medical networks to turn into regional cartels. Most regions have 2-3 medical networks, who are gobbled up all of the medical practices and closed many. Most of the private general practices have been bought up, consolidated to…

Perhaps you are not aware, but Obamacare is actually Romneycare. It is set up exactly in the way Republicans wanted, instead of a single-payer system that the general public and especially the Democrats voters wanted. So why would Republicans critique the system that gave Insurance companies even more money?

Republicans wouldn't. Fascist cult members would be against ice cream if Obama was giving it away.

Re: My Mom and Dr. DeepSeek (2025)

#157

Post by deaux »

code_biologist wrote: post #69
Marsymars wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I guess it’s not nothing that Gemini caught that, but that seems like a pretty obvious oversight from the healthcare practitioners - inquiring about RSI injuries should be one of the first things they ask about. I pre-emptively switched to trackballs and to alternating left/right hands for mousing near the start of my professional career based on the reading I did after some mild wrist strain.

I had progressively worsening pelvic floor pain issues that AI helped me with and are now in remission/repair. My decade of interaction with multiple urologists and clinicians could be characterized as repeated and consistent "pretty obvious oversight from the healthcare practitioners".

I have a dear friend who suffers from this and she has also got nothing useful out of the many visits to doctors and specialists. If it's not too personal, could you share what helped?

Re: My Mom and Dr. DeepSeek (2025)

#158

Post by quickthrowman »

zdc1 wrote: post #94
_carbyau_ wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> and unbelievably knowledgeable They are knowledgeable in that so much information sits in their repository. But less than perfect application of that information combined with the appearance of always perfect confidence can lead to problems. I treat them like that one person in the office who always espouses alternate theories - trust it as far as I can verify it. This can be very handy for finding new paths of inq…

And for better or worse it feels like the errors are being "pushed down" into smaller, more subtle spaces. I asked ChatGPT a question about a made up character in a made up work and it came back with "I don’t actually have a reliable answer for that". Perfect. On the other hand, I can ask it about varnishing a piece of wood and it will give a lovely table with options, tradeoffs, and Good/Ok/Bad ratings for each opti…

I’m not familiar with Australian (Austrian?) electrical code, but the correct size wire for circuits with 15A OCPDs in the US NEC is either #14 (2.5mm^2, rated for 60C) in a residential setting or #12 (4mm^2, rated for 75C) in a commercial setting [0]. If you can provide a link to the conductor ampacity table I can tell you if it matches.

[0] US code allows you to feed a motor on a 15A OCPD with #14s but everyone uses #12s in practice

Re: My Mom and Dr. DeepSeek (2025)

#159

Post by wildzzz »

tgtweak wrote: post #58

Much like talking to your doctor - you need to ask/prompt the right questions. I've seen chatgpt and gemini make one false assumption that was never mentioned and run with it and continue referencing it down the line as if it were fact... That can be extremely dangerous if you don't know enough to ask it to reframe or verify, or correct it's assumption. If you are using it like a tool to review/analyze or simplify so…

The one thing a real doctor can do is actually touch the patient and run tests, even simple things like using a stethoscope. At best, an AI "doctor" is just comparing patient-provided symptoms to a lookup table of conditions. No better than what WebMD used to (still does?) when you would answer a questionnaire and be provided with a list of conditions ranging from a cold to the bubonic plague. AI loves taking everything you say at face value, it doesn't know how to think critically. Whole doctors shouldn't think of a patient as an adversary, they often lie or unintentionally obscure symptoms or the severity of symptoms. Even the most junior doctor can provide a more thorough examination over the phone or through chat than an AI that believes everything it hears.

I remember trying to talk to WebMD when I had pain in my side and appendicitis was near the bottom of the list, the top stuff was either nothing serious or highly improbable. The pain didn't seem as bad as what the appendicitis pain should have been based on descriptions. My mother got her doctor to call me and he walked me through some touching and said "you likely have appendicitis, don't talk to WebMD next time." I went to the hospital that night and that doctor told me I was likely hours away from a burst appendix. I can only imagine what nonsense ChatGPT would have told me.

Just like with most professions, the real world is nothing like the textbook. Being able to pass a medical exam doesn't necessarily mean you're going to be a good doctor. Most of the exam is taken during med school and the final portion is only taken after the first year of residency. They still have another few years at least of residency after passing USMLE and that's with supervision under an attending doctor. Being able to pass the USMLE is not equivalent to being successful doctor with years of experience.

Re: My Mom and Dr. DeepSeek (2025)

#160

Post by mapt »

throwaway173738 wrote: post #119
Marsymars wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’ve had good results with doctors for soft tissue injuries, but it doesn’t feel like something that GPs are generally equipped/motivated for. The good results I’ve had have been from doctors at high performance sports clinics, or with doctors I’ve been referred to by my (awesome) sports physiotherapist.

Yeah my dad would always go to sports medicine docs specifically because GPs are basically going to tell you to stop whatever hurts but sports medics will tell you how to do it without pain.

Do sports medicine docs operate within the context of medical insurance in the US? Or are they effectively doctors for the independently wealthy and corporate enterprises?
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