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FBI is investigating Minnesota Signal chats tracking ICE

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Re: FBI is investigating Minnesota Signal chats tracking ICE

#151

Post by ls612 »

spankalee wrote: post #10
ddtaylor wrote: post #6

I don't know signal very well but when I have spoken to others about it they mention that the phone number is the only metadata they will have access to. This seems like a good example of that being enough metadata to be a big problem.

I don't think it's much of a problem at all. Many of the protesters and observers are not hiding their identities, so finding their phone number isn't a problem. Even with content, coordinating legal activities isn't a problem either.

Some of the signal messages I've seen screenshotted (granted screenshots can be altered) make it seem like the participants have access to some sort of ALPR data to track vehicles that they think are ICE. That would probably be an illegal use of that data if true.

Re: FBI is investigating Minnesota Signal chats tracking ICE

#152

Post by mrWiz »

charliebwrites wrote: post #85
ddtaylor wrote: post #6

I don't know signal very well but when I have spoken to others about it they mention that the phone number is the only metadata they will have access to. This seems like a good example of that being enough metadata to be a big problem.

The steps to trouble: - identify who owns the number - compel that person to give unlocked phone - government can read messages of _all_ people in group chat not just that person Corollary: Disappearing messages severely limits what can be read

It's even easier than that. They're simply asking on neighborhood Facebook (and other services too, I assume) groups to be added to mutual aid Signal groups and hoping that somebody will add them without bothering to vet them first.

Re: FBI is investigating Minnesota Signal chats tracking ICE

#153

Post by janalsncm »

mycodendral wrote: post #126
bediger4000 wrote: post #4

Why? That's unequivocally constitutionally protected speech. Why is our tax money being wasted on this?

Federal felony, not free speech. 18 U.S.C. § 372 - Conspiring to impede or interfere with a federal officer

“Free speech” is a concept not a law. The first amendment protects certain types of speech. Whether something is free speech or not does not depend on the US government’s opinion or the Chinese government or your mother in law.

Publishing locations alone is not conspiracy to commit a crime. If ICE is impeded as a result of this information, that’s not enough. Conspiracy requires the government to prove that multiple people intended to impede them.

Re: FBI is investigating Minnesota Signal chats tracking ICE

#154

Post by dylan604 »

chocolatkey wrote: post #149
tucnak wrote: post #123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wonder whether the protesters could opt for offshore alternatives that don't require exposing their phone number to a company that could be compelled to reveal it by US law. For example, there is Threema[1], a Swiss option priced at 5 euros one-time. It is interesting on Android as you can pay anonymously[2], therefore it doesn't depend on Google Play and its services (they offer Threema Push services of their own.…

Note that Threema has had a recent change in ownership to a German investment firm. Supposedly nothing will change but I can’t help but be wary

Just being owned by an offshore company doesn't mean that they still can't be infiltrated. But as you pointed out, just because Company A creates an app does not mean that Company B can't come in later to take control.

Re: FBI is investigating Minnesota Signal chats tracking ICE

#155

Post by mothballed »

quickthrowman wrote: post #76

I’d be curious to know what they plan to charge people with.

I heard a totally unsubstantiated rumor that the participants were sending (ICE agent) plate numbers to people with NCIC access to run the plates. If that's the case it would be a pretty easy felony charge for all involved.

I have no reason to believe that's true, just what word on the street was they might be charged with.

Re: FBI is investigating Minnesota Signal chats tracking ICE

#156

Post by mrWiz »

SR2Z wrote: post #100
charliebwrites wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The steps to trouble: - identify who owns the number - compel that person to give unlocked phone - government can read messages of _all_ people in group chat not just that person Corollary: Disappearing messages severely limits what can be read

Unless they compel people at gunpoint (which prevents the government from bringing a case), they will probably not have much luck with this. As soon as a user sets up a passcode or other lock on their phone, it is beyond the ability of even most parts of the US government to look inside. It's much more likely that the government convinces one member of the group chat to turn on the other members and give up their pho…

All they have to do is pretend to be a concerned neighbor who wants to help give mutual aid and hope that someone in the group chat takes the bait and adds them in. No further convincing is needed.

Re: FBI is investigating Minnesota Signal chats tracking ICE

#157

Post by thomasrognon »

kodyo wrote: post #60
psunavy03 wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The DOD is not using "flagrantly using Signal." The Secretary of Defense, whatever his preferred pronouns are, is breaking the law.

CISA recommended Signal for encrypted end-to-end communications for "highly targeted individuals." https://www.cisa.gov/sites/default/files/2024-12/guidance-mo...

Come on, man. We're talking about classified information, not general OPSEC advice. I worked in a SCIF. Literally every piece of equipment, down to each ethernet cable, has a sticker with its authorized classification level. This system exists for a reason, like making it impossible to accidently leak information to an uncleared contact in your personal phone. What Hegseth did (and is doing?) is illegal. It doesn't even matter what app is used.

Re: FBI is investigating Minnesota Signal chats tracking ICE

#158

Post by spiderice »

nimbius wrote: post #3

i suppose what he means is that the phones of protestors which have signal chat will be investigated. Assuming they dont have disappearing messages activated, and assuming any protestors willingly unlock their phones.

There are already people on X who have infiltrated chats and posted screen captures. Getting the full content of the chats isn't going to be difficult. They have way to many people in them.

Re: FBI is investigating Minnesota Signal chats tracking ICE

#159

Post by nyc_data_geek »

jatora wrote: post #150
hedayet wrote: post #111

With all the predatory tech Palantir has produced, it won't take more than a few minutes for FBI to start taking actions, IF they had anything tangible. This is just an intimidation tactic to stop people talking (chatting)

[flagged]

Seems like citizens are the ones who need protection from law and immigration enforcement, considering the public executions we've all witnessed in the past week or so.

Re: FBI is investigating Minnesota Signal chats tracking ICE

#160

Post by spiderice »

janalsncm wrote: post #153
mycodendral wrote: post #126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Federal felony, not free speech. 18 U.S.C. § 372 - Conspiring to impede or interfere with a federal officer

“Free speech” is a concept not a law. The first amendment protects certain types of speech. Whether something is free speech or not does not depend on the US government’s opinion or the Chinese government or your mother in law. Publishing locations alone is not conspiracy to commit a crime. If ICE is impeded as a result of this information, that’s not enough. Conspiracy requires the government to prove that multiple…

Which is probably the easiest thing ever to prove, since people are openly trying to impede them
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