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Porsche sold more electrified cars in Europe in 2025 than pure gas-powered cars

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Re: Porsche sold more electrified cars in Europe in 2025 than pure gas-powered cars

#151

Post by thelastgallon »

CGMthrowaway wrote: post #111
nxm wrote: post #5

The key part is electrified and not pure electric.

I never understood the big push for full EVs over hybrid. Roughly speaking, a hybrid gets double the MPG of an ICE car, and a BEV gets double the MPGe of a hybrid. But BEVs require you to add a plug to your garage to get a rapid refuel, when your whole neighborhood gets them it strains the grid, you are range limited, etc... My hunch is there are some laws or regs somewhere that kept hybrids from really taking off (o…

Its not an unsurmountable problem as Americans think. Just works like how you plug in your phone. Most of the world has electricity at home.

Re: Porsche sold more electrified cars in Europe in 2025 than pure gas-powered cars

#153

Post by pixl97 »

jacquesm wrote: post #59
appplication wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

China may become the superpower on volume but I would be surprised if the upper quartile (by price) of western buyers were interested in Chinese vehicles. Too much quality issues across the board on Chinese made products, unless you have a trusted non-Chinese company with stringent quality control (e.g. Apple model). I’m sure they can handily win the lower end of the market though. And yes I’m aware many western manu…

The (potential, no experience) quality issues are to me far outweighed by the enabling of yet another country to become a superpower which will then sooner or later result in yet another confrontation. Russia should have taught at least Europe that this sort of trade can only backfire in the longer term. Yes, I realize, China is the world's factory now, but there is no reason that can not change. I'm trying really ha…

In the US for example, most of the US brands are already made in China. They will copy the tooling and put a different brand name on it and you'll have a tool of the same quality for way less cost.

Simply put China is an unrecognized superpower at this point with the investments they've already made. The amount of infrastructure they've built in a decade dwarfs what the West has done in decades.

Re: Porsche sold more electrified cars in Europe in 2025 than pure gas-powered cars

#154

Post by calvinmorrison »

olyjohn wrote: post #128
Braxton1980 wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One engine issue due to a manufacturing flaw shouldn't be enough to counter their massive change in produt lines over the years

Maybe just anecdotal evidence, but i'm noticing a lot of Kias with no brake lights. I'm suspecting bad body control modules are going to become more of a thing as these cars age. I noticed when GMT800 trucks were blowing DRLs constantly and lo and behold there's a TSB for that. So I don't think I'm imagining things.

what it with cheap imports and no DRLs? 9/10 cars driving in the rain seem to be grey nissans that are invisible 30 feet away

Re: Porsche sold more electrified cars in Europe in 2025 than pure gas-powered cars

#155

Post by mullingitover »

9JollyOtter wrote: post #46
ggm wrote: post #12

I think a lot of people are missing a point here. Cars are not (just) use-values. They are expression of desire. They are, for some brands, classic Veblen Goods. Porche possibly could sell more by putting the price up They put their marque behind EV and Hybrid. It worked. Their brand sold well. This is in contradistinction to vendors who won't think about this market niche in positives, but are being dragged into it.

This is true for quite a number of brands of vehicles. Also I don't understand what a modern Porsche is. Porsche to me was always a Rear Engined, (normally) RWD sports car i.e. the 911. I am personally on the look for a 944 (believe it or not they are cheaper than JDM cars of a similar vintage). When I see a Porsche SUV, to me that isn't a Porsche. It looks like any other SUV on the road with Porsche badge on it. It…

That article throws out the wild claim “The news comes at a time when EV demand is on the decline across the car world.”

EV sales increased around 20% last year.

Re: Porsche sold more electrified cars in Europe in 2025 than pure gas-powered cars

#156

Post by pixl97 »

linksnapzz wrote: post #116
light_hue_1 wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nothing to do with quality. It's all image. When Americans discover again how crappy their cars are compared to what's available elsewhere, like we did with Japan, there will be a reckoning once more. And again American cars will become the laughing stock they really are. In the meantime, this incredibly short sighted protectionism will end just like the last round did. Further hollowing out our industrial base and p…

>When Americans discover again how crappy their cars are compared to what's >available elsewhere, like we did with Japan No, that's not what happened. Japanese manufacturers made cars in the US, to match US tastes. Japanese cars as sold in Japan, were not models Americans would buy. >In the meantime, this incredibly short sighted protectionism will end just like >the last round did. It'll end with...Chinese cars made…

US cars in the late 70s and early 80s sucked, you just had to be there to know how bad they were.

The Japanese made cars for the US that were different than local cars, but they were also different from what the US was making.

Re: Porsche sold more electrified cars in Europe in 2025 than pure gas-powered cars

#157

Post by CGMthrowaway »

dmix wrote: post #124
CGMthrowaway wrote: post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I never understood the big push for full EVs over hybrid. Roughly speaking, a hybrid gets double the MPG of an ICE car, and a BEV gets double the MPGe of a hybrid. But BEVs require you to add a plug to your garage to get a rapid refuel, when your whole neighborhood gets them it strains the grid, you are range limited, etc... My hunch is there are some laws or regs somewhere that kept hybrids from really taking off (o…

The main issue will always be price. Whether that's purchase price, resale, or maintenance. Even the budget brand cars from South Korea and Ford can figure out the basics of interior/exterior design where customers are happy. That mostly just leaves the price and it's only gone up. Car prices have increased well above the rate of inflation over the last decade and even used cars are more expensive than ever. Average…

> The main issue will always be price.

You're right. There isn't a single legacy auto manufacturer in the US (Ford, GM, Stellantis) that can profitably sell an EV. Yet they make them anyway, and sell them for huge losses ($billions per year) because they have to meet mandates.

Re: Porsche sold more electrified cars in Europe in 2025 than pure gas-powered cars

#158

Post by avidiax »

Grimblewald wrote: post #120
cortesoft wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are all German cars the same? Is there a reason they all declined together, in your opinion?

no OP, but as someone who comes from a family where German cars were king for several reasons, who have all become disillusioned and now buy Asian cars, where the reason is simple. American style corporate greed infested German auto-manufactures and it shows at every level. It is most obvious with things like subscription services for basic function, like acceleration or the seat heaters you already paid for, but it…

I haven't bought German ever, but everything I hear seems pretty negative.

Some of the recent models have plastic timing chain guides and have turned the engine around so that the timing chains are in the back. The only innocent explanation is that the car is only meant to last 10 years at most, so saving the money on plastic instead of metal and screwing whoever owns the car when the timing chains need to be redone (or ruining the engine when the chain fails) is out of scope for their quality team.

There were many older models of BMW that had an electric water pump. If that sounds silly, well, it is. And it failed frequently and was again, very difficult to replace.

I just don't have any respect for German automotive engineering. Reliability is job #1. And the company's themselves, well, "collusive" is a pretty good term. I saw an estimate that German auto industry collusion resulted in about $10k of additional cost per vehicle to U.S. buyers. The cases have somehow been kept quiet, but they've at least been caught holding back innovations until the other automakers have a competitive response, and gaslighting regulators into allowing higher emissions from diesels in the name of reducing the size and filling frequency of the AdBlue tank. I've also heard that there's another layer of this in the parts suppliers. Explains how a wiper motor or wiper body module is somehow hundreds of dollars.

Re: Porsche sold more electrified cars in Europe in 2025 than pure gas-powered cars

#159

Post by jcims »

joeel84 wrote: post #77

I just buy japanese cars/vehicles these days. With that being said a lot of them are manufactured stateside - especially larger vehicles. I had a Mitsu I was very happy with. I've also purchased Hyundai made in Korea and it is wonderful but not much better that what was built in Iowa.

I grew up by the assembly plants in Ohio and worked there on various temp jobs in the late 80s/early 90s. There was (maybe still is) a lot of local pride in the product that comes out of those plants, the amount of energy that was put into quality control was boggling to my young mind. This included the motorcycle plant, where I had a few jobs correcting supplier parts that were just a smidge out of spec before bolting them on to the ATVs they were cranking out at the time.

Made me realize quality is a process that requires investment and commitment, and not some magic quality imbued upon the product by the locale in which it's made.

Re: Porsche sold more electrified cars in Europe in 2025 than pure gas-powered cars

#160

Post by triceratops »

CGMthrowaway wrote: post #111
nxm wrote: post #5

The key part is electrified and not pure electric.

I never understood the big push for full EVs over hybrid. Roughly speaking, a hybrid gets double the MPG of an ICE car, and a BEV gets double the MPGe of a hybrid. But BEVs require you to add a plug to your garage to get a rapid refuel, when your whole neighborhood gets them it strains the grid, you are range limited, etc... My hunch is there are some laws or regs somewhere that kept hybrids from really taking off (o…

> BEVs require you to add a plug to your garage to get a rapid refuel

You hardly ever need a rapid refuel in your garage though. That's where your car spends most of its hours.

And most of the world has 220/240v mains supply: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mains_electricity_by_country. Regular wall outlets can charge a car fast enough outside North America.

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