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Germany's Merz admits nuclear exit was strategic mistake

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Re: Germany's Merz admits nuclear exit was strategic mistake

#151

Post by quotemstr »

uecker wrote: post #149
quotemstr wrote: post #147

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The spectacular success of nuclear power where it's been tried combined with equally spectacular failures to rebase first world power grids on renewables should have prompted you to question your assumptions by now. One must conclude the problem lies not in splitting the atom, but educating physicists. You're a scientist, right? Can you think of any evidence that even in principle might prompt you to change your mind…

There is no spectacular success of nuclear power. It provides an irrelevant fraction of overall power in the world and time and money needed to scale it up would be immense. The France's nuclear industry is an economic disaster and the EDF has been fully re-nationalized (and during the time it was semi-private there was plan to close 17 plants by 2025). The rollout of renewables works very nicely in Europe, there is…

Looks pretty successful to me: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuclear_power_in_France#/media...

If over half a country's electricity production is "irrelevant", I'm not sure what would be relevant.

Call it a disaster if you'd like. Lights turn on. Meltdowns aren't happening. The French pay 50% less than Germans per kWh.

You do you, but don't sit there and claim you're looking at the data. You can either interface with the real world or live in a fantasy universe and fail. Up to you.

Re: Germany's Merz admits nuclear exit was strategic mistake

#152

Post by quotemstr »

uecker wrote: post #136
ca1f wrote: post #129

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It really is not. This is misinformation spread mostly by the right winged party in germany and conservatives to some extent to. Electricity in Germany can look expensive at first sight if you're quoting legacy household tariffs that many existing customers are still on, because they never switch provider / tariff. But that's not representative of what people pay if they sign a new contract today: the market for new…

One should also point out that the household price is determined by many factors and does not reflect cost of generation.

Your energy prices are so high that century-old factories are shutting down and your export sector is collapsing. Yet you guys keep a (presumably) straight face while insisting that the truth is the opposite of what anyone with eyeballs can see.

It'd be hilarious if it weren't so sad.

Re: Germany's Merz admits nuclear exit was strategic mistake

#153

Post by quotemstr »

uecker wrote: post #148
aubanel wrote: post #143

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The success of the Energiewende ? Just take a look at average electricity price and carbon footprint in Germany Vs France. https://app.electricitymaps.com/map/live/fifteen_minutes

Germany started out with a high amount of coal and lignite (as a domestic source of energy with many jobs depending on it). The carbon footprint dropped with the rollout of renewables according and will be very low once the transition to renewables is completed. It makes no sense to compare it to France, which switched to a nuclear a long time ago. This is relatively easy to understand in my opinion.

Shouldn't this so-called "transition" should be monotonic? The derivative of energy price should be always negative if you're right. It's not. It's very, very, very much not.

If the end state is very cheap energy, why is it the opposite of cheap now?

Look: the "energy transition" is not working. It's done the opposite of work. You have to concede to reality at some point.

Re: Germany's Merz admits nuclear exit was strategic mistake

#154

Post by uecker »

quotemstr wrote: post #152
uecker wrote: post #136

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One should also point out that the household price is determined by many factors and does not reflect cost of generation.

Your energy prices are so high that century-old factories are shutting down and your export sector is collapsing. Yet you guys keep a (presumably) straight face while insisting that the truth is the opposite of what anyone with eyeballs can see. It'd be hilarious if it weren't so sad.

Sad is the low intellectual level of this discussion where people draw conclusions from insufficient understanding of the data (or more likely, they believe what they read somewhere without even looking at data - which I assume is the case for you - as you do not provide logical arguments and merely repeat the talking points from political discussions, which are worded to evoke an emotional reaction "dying century-old factories" "collapsing"). The prices households or industry pays are only indirectly related to the generation cost and a lot more with fees, so this is something to study. Also, if you compare to France, EDF was renationalized and now contributes to the relative high amount of government debt compared to GDP.

Re: Germany's Merz admits nuclear exit was strategic mistake

#155

Post by timonoko »

timonoko wrote: post #120

Wasnt Germany weirdly anti-nukular already 60 years ago. Where did it came from? I remember in a train 1971 passing some Nuclear Towers and whole train expressed displeasement at the scenery. Kinda scary actually, because they started staring at me for not joining the crowd.

Gemini knows:

The "Atomtöd" (Atomic Death) Campaign (1950s) Before civil nuclear power even existed, West Germany had a massive "Ban the Bomb" movement. In the late 1950s, the government considered allowing U.S. nuclear warheads on German soil. This sparked the Kampf dem Atomtod (Fight Atomic Death) movement.

The Result: The German public learned to associate the word "nuclear" with total destruction and the Cold War arms race long before they ever saw a power plant.

Re: Germany's Merz admits nuclear exit was strategic mistake

#156

Post by alecco »

pankajdoharey wrote: post #124
hippo22 wrote: post #105

The story of their shutdown is really quite crazy. The shutdown was initiated by chancellor Gerhard Schröder. After killing Germany’s nuclear sector, he signed off on Nord Stream 1 as he was on his way out of office. Just after leaving office, Gazprom nominated him for the post of the head of the shareholders' committee of Nord Stream AG. Russia later nominated him to be on their largest oil producers board. This guy…

There should be a law that lawmakers can only be scientific people when it comes to science, i.e scientist's and engineers not humanities or arts majors. These people take decisions which are absolutely absurd. The entire western world has stockpiles of plutonium which is not going to be used for anything other than mutual self destruction. Because of these anti nuclear activists types the western hemisphere has tril…

> There should be a law that lawmakers can only be scientific people

Nope. Merkel was a scientist but she caved to the green's pressure to keep her coalition. Also she spent a decade of surplus in millions of refugees from Middle East and neglected infrastructure.

"Merkel obtained a doctorate in quantum chemistry in 1986 and worked as a research scientist until 1989" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Angela_Merkel

"Policy Reversal: In May 2011, just months after extending reactor lives, Merkel's government announced a total phase-out of all nuclear plants by 2022."

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=46631586#46632118

Re: Germany's Merz admits nuclear exit was strategic mistake

#157

Post by pankajdoharey »

alecco wrote: post #156
pankajdoharey wrote: post #124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There should be a law that lawmakers can only be scientific people when it comes to science, i.e scientist's and engineers not humanities or arts majors. These people take decisions which are absolutely absurd. The entire western world has stockpiles of plutonium which is not going to be used for anything other than mutual self destruction. Because of these anti nuclear activists types the western hemisphere has tril…

> There should be a law that lawmakers can only be scientific people Nope. Merkel was a scientist but she caved to the green's pressure to keep her coalition. Also she spent a decade of surplus in millions of refugees from Middle East and neglected infrastructure. "Merkel obtained a doctorate in quantum chemistry in 1986 and worked as a research scientist until 1989" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Angela_Merkel "Polic…

WoW, i stand corrected. Though my actual point was that now we have Plutonium and it cant be wished away it cant be put in silos, even if we lock it up in silos sooner or later say in a few centuries when people will forget about it those silos will leak and threaten humanity. There is no better way to get rid of it than spent it away in fast breeder reactors. It will threaten humanity sooner or later.

Re: Germany's Merz admits nuclear exit was strategic mistake

#158

Post by alecco »

anal_reactor wrote: post #146
flowerthoughts wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Curious what her argument against it is.

I'll never forget the video of some Arab dude saying "Democracy is the rule the of the people, but the people, they are retarded".

"Democracy basically means: Government by the people, of the people, for the people.... but the people are retarded." -- Osho

Indian, actually https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rajneesh

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wild_Wild_Country (yeah, this guy)

Re: Germany's Merz admits nuclear exit was strategic mistake

#159

Post by anal_reactor »

alecco wrote: post #158
anal_reactor wrote: post #146

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'll never forget the video of some Arab dude saying "Democracy is the rule the of the people, but the people, they are retarded".

"Democracy basically means: Government by the people, of the people, for the people.... but the people are retarded." -- Osho Indian, actually https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rajneesh https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wild_Wild_Country (yeah, this guy)

Thank you for the clarification.

Re: Germany's Merz admits nuclear exit was strategic mistake

#160

Post by smitty1e »

slfreference wrote: post #117
smitty1e wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why? To appease those with extreme environmentalist views.

Have you seen lately, that in order to win AI race, nobody [big tech especially] cares about climate anymore?

Why, yes! Yes, I have. And just wait until quantum superconductive block chain artifical general intelligence ushers in the Glorious Future!
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