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Let's call a murder a murder

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Re: Let's call a murder a murder

#151

Post by mindslight »

bananabiscuit wrote: post #150
mindslight wrote: post #143

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Did her wife leave the car at any time? Or are you talking about verbal interaction, which is most likely Constitutionally-protected criticism of government agents? (such verbal interaction would also indicate a clear reason for the positioning of the car) Or is there something specific in the verbal interaction that establishes a mens rea to physically impede? If so, please quote it. (not that her wife's words estab…

Specifically in the officer POV video (2nd link in my original post), with how the car was positioned, and that Renee’s partner was walking around outside and was not in the car, and the style of the back and forth dialog between, Renee, her partner, and the officers, all served to give me the impression Renee and her partner were there for a while, and weren’t just “passing through”. Again, I am willing to admit I m…

We had been talking about whether they were physically impeding ICE agents, but now you're framing things as if being "there for a while" would be a problem in and of itself. Meanwhile in America it is every citizen's right, and perhaps even duty, to observe and criticize government agents. To be very clear: stayed stopped on the street [0], observing, filming, and heckling government agents is all Constitutionally-protected activity.

Moving the goalposts to unsupportable standards ("middle of an awkward u-turn" ?!?) makes it hard to assume good faith.

And furthermore, ICE has body cameras. Surely if there was footage of ICE agents actually being impeded, it would have been widely publicized by now. Instead, we've only heard wild assertions claiming they were. And with the reputation of this administration, it's only reasonable to assume those are bald-faced lies.

[0] when done in furtherance of other Constitutionally-protected activity and not being policed in line with normal traffic enforcement

Re: Let's call a murder a murder

#153

Post by lostmsu »

lostmsu wrote: post #36
tim333 wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not sure this will play well for them politically. A fair bit of what got Trump elected was saying they'd protect ordinary Americans from immigrant criminals. Now they have footage of a white middle class mum in an suv, pretty much their median voter, being shot dead by their thugs and saying don't believe you eyes and clear video evidence, she tried to run an officer over when she obviously didn't.

[flagged]

The agent's one: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7nWgcYx95Tc

Re: Let's call a murder a murder

#154

Post by culi »

jaybrendansmith wrote: post #20
solid_fuel wrote: post #5

The nature of our current political crisis is changing by the minute, and with every fascist act this administration emboldens the next wave of left wing opposition. The moderate position for future liberal candidates is now the full dissolution of ICE. The more radical position - which is rapidly gaining support - is the arrest and prosecution of everyone involved in this administration. Starting with the president…

I'm not sure that isn't the moderate position. Every one of them are certified criminals. They all need to stand trial. I pledge to do everything in my power to ensure that they do. So say we all.

See also the mind-boggling sign-on bonuses they get. They know ICE being the 8th most funded army in the world can't last forever. The left wasn't allowed to do a wealth transfer from rich to poor so instead the right did a massive wealth transfer from all of us to the most racist of us.

Re: Let's call a murder a murder

#155

Post by computerthings »

lostmsu wrote: post #83
rozap wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Officers are trained to never approach from the front. Shooting a driver in a vehicle headed towards you does not stop the vehicle. This officer ignored all of his training because he wanted to kill someone. It's unconscionable to defend it.

[flagged]

[dead]

Re: Let's call a murder a murder

#157

Post by machomaster »

culebron21 wrote: post #42
KittenInABox wrote: post #8

Inquiry, since I know anti immigrant sentiment is on the rise in other countries. How are other countries increasing their enforcement of their immigration laws? Are there also chaotic situations where their immigration enforcers are shooting people in cars? Are there better ways for rising anti-immigrant sentiment to result in stricter enforcement with less violence?

I'm from Russia. There's no such special department there, nor police shoots at anyone in a car. They do chase, then after some minutes, if nothing works, shoot at tires. There's no rule, nor drilling to shoot then think, nor to take a gun ASAP. There's no qualified immunity for police either. (Right-wing Russians, even die-hard Putin's supporters, in fact admire this side of the American police -- like "you don't st…

Can confirm. Police will generally be quite gentle (even when they use weapons, they have to shoot a warning shot). Rosgvardia very likely will beat you up. Russian SWAT will for sure beat you up or shoot you.

Beating up and actual torturing may commence after you were apprehended.

But being shot during the ordinary police stoppage is not a wide-spread problem.

Re: Let's call a murder a murder

#159

Post by mickle00 »

Atreiden wrote: post #43
addandsubtract wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It'S PoLiTiCaL

As self-proclaimed hackers who are part of a community whose core values include curiosity and critical thinking, we do ourselves, and the world, a massive disservice by closing our eyes and ears to important information just because it's political in nature. Hacker culture and fascism are antithetical, and we should all be acutely aware when the current regime moves towards violence to squash dissent.

completely 100% agree

Re: Let's call a murder a murder

#160

Post by tombert »

Jensson wrote: post #69
lesuorac wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How is this even relevant to the discussion at hand? The issue from the article is that an "Immigration" agency used lethal violence against a _citizen of the US_. This is not an illegal aliens issue.

The original poster was the one that questioned the funding, so talking about funding is on topic. The illegal aliens issue is why they need so much funding. USA has a bigger illegal alien issue than any other developed country, so to fix that it makes sense they need more funding to try to solve it.

It is questionable that they need that much money, especially when it appears that a lot of the workforce is being used to suppress protests and work more or less as a private army of the convicted fraudster that Americans apparently thought it would be wise to provide the nuclear codes to.

Keep in mind, if you defined ICE as a military, it would be the thirteenth largest on the planet [1]. I have yet to see an argument or study that indicates that our immigration problem is costing us more than Poland's entire military, and I have seen a lot of evidence that immigration is a net positive in the US.

You could say something like "BUT, BUT, BUT HE'S ONLY GOING AFTER THE ILLEGALS YOU WANT ILLEGALS HERE HAHAHA WOKE LEFTY OPEN BORDERS ", but determining whether or not the person in question is here "legally" clearly has not been the priority of this current administration and its weird militarization of ICE.

[1] https://www.nationalpriorities.org/pressroom/articles/2025/1...

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