Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Jensen: 'We've done our country a great disservice' by offshoring

barchart.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

151–160 of 527 posts

Re: Jensen: 'We've done our country a great disservice' by offshoring

#151

Post by andrewmcwatters »

andrewmcwatters wrote: post #85
runako wrote: post #36

There are so many underlying changes to the established relationship between Labor and Capital in the US that would be a necessary part of keeping jobs here that it would effectively make us a completely different country. For example -- suppose one could snap one's fingers and "bring back" millions of manufacturing jobs. What would lead one to conclude those would be the kind of "good jobs" everyone is envisioning?…

What’s your point? Say everything you just said again, but with software engineering and Indians, instead of manufacturing and the Chinese, or textiles and Vietnam and Pakistan. There’s no reason American cars need to exist either, they basically all perform worse dollar-for-dollar, feature-for-feature, than foreign cars. In fact, let’s offshore everything. There’s no reason not to use Filipinos for McDonald’s and In…

[dead]

Re: Jensen: 'We've done our country a great disservice' by offshoring

#152

Post by Imustaskforhelp »

pepperball wrote: post #140
potato3732842 wrote: post #129

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What growth? A bunch of assholes in offices (edit: and a handful of C-suite above them of course) got rich on RSUs at the expense of the entire rest of the economy. The factory shut down and all those workers are getting screwed driving for some gig service or order picking for ecommerce or whatever. Number go up only matters if the number going up is strongly associated with things getting better. And it didn't even…

> What growth? You can get $15/h jobs and cheap, giant spyware TV’s now. Are you not impressed with your bread and circuses?

I do think that we have built ourselves the perfect circus. An Elaborate labyrinth of internet doom scrolling for many which is hard to get out of.

Real change feels out of the way so of course people forget that that they are capable of change in the first place.

Re: Jensen: 'We've done our country a great disservice' by offshoring

#153

Post by afavour »

gruez wrote: post #137
afavour wrote: post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not aware of that many times where I've had a choice. I could get a nice, expensive dress shirt made in the US but for general clothing it's extremely difficult to buy domestic. Frankly, a lot of the corporations are still to blame because they're the ones actively concentrating wealth at the top. If I had more disposable income I'd buy more made in the US products but my budget simply doesn't allow it.

>If I had more disposable income I'd buy more made in the US products but my budget simply doesn't allow it. How's that much different than the parent's claim of "The consumers outsource every time they select for cost."?

It isn't. I'm saying that people select for cost because corporations are actively engaged in pooling resources for the rich. If they didn't people wouldn't need to select for cost as much as they do.

Re: Jensen: 'We've done our country a great disservice' by offshoring

#154

Post by Supermancho »

afavour wrote: post #114
stuffn wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> What would lead one to conclude those would be the kind of "good jobs" everyone is envisioning Your entire political statement aside manufacturing was always a good job. I’m not sure if you realize what kind of skilled labor went into manufacturing: 1. Machining 2. Tool and Die 3. Welding 4. Etc Hell when I was working in construction I was making 20 dollars an hour at 18. That’s good money, and at the time if I wo…

> But the party who supports raising wages also supports near limitless spending on the less fortunate countries. You cannot have both. Do they? Who advocates near limitless spending? Last I checked foreign aid was less than 1% of the federal budget.

It's about 1.2% in 2024 with 0.24% being Israel.

Re: Jensen: 'We've done our country a great disservice' by offshoring

#156

Post by pepperball »

moogly wrote: post #31
freedomben wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't know about Jensen specifically, and I can't remember the guy at the moment, but there have been a few tipped hands including one where the guy on national TV said something about "Americans should be gluing the iPhones together in the factory, not Chinese" and it really made a lot of this stuff click for me: they want to provide low-paying American jobs in American factories. That's probably not the whole vis…

That was Howard Lutnick. He's said a lot of, let's say "out-of-touch", things. He's not living in the real world, though. Motorola tried that not too long ago. Didn't go well. If you want to decimate American wages, you could do it, but if you at the same time deport people who were the most ready to work for a pittance, it's going to be hard to do this without riots. Then again, Stephen Miller wants those riots, so…

> The crux of the matter is that those workers won't be able to afford the iPhones they're assembling, however.

Of course they will, Americans banks and “tech” companies are always coming up with creative ways to extend shady lines of credit to the poorest Americans.

Re: Jensen: 'We've done our country a great disservice' by offshoring

#157

Post by coredog64 »

vjvjvjvjghv wrote: post #120
ecshafer wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One of my main arguments for a universal health care scheme in the united states is how horrendously expensive, for employers, health care is. Lets totally ignore efficacy, moral arguments, expense for the patient, etc. If you are a company in the US a large percentage of the effective compensation of employees is healthcare. A moderately good PPO is like ~$10k+ a year per employee. You can pay workers in some other…

"how horrendously expensive, for employers, health care is." So why aren't they pushing for abolishing employer-based health insurance? They had no problems getting rid of pensions but for some reason nobody really lobbies for employers to get out of the health care business. The same for 401k. Why do companies have to manage those instead of just contributing some money and let the employees find the right package o…

Union employees have negotiated healthcare into long-term contracts, making it hard for those employers to switch. (Feel free to read up on so-called "Cadillac plans" during the original ACA negotiations for more details). The size of this market makes employers exiting a non-starter IMO. Any org that wants to exit will see a huge resistance to this change even if they can showcase all the common benefits.

Re: Jensen: 'We've done our country a great disservice' by offshoring

#158

Post by amanaplanacanal »

softwaredoug wrote: post #92
amanaplanacanal wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This only works if Trump is president for life. He only has three years left in office, and you can't build nuclear that fast.

I don’t think Democrats are virulently anti Nuclear the way Trump hates wind farms. Unlike Trump, I don’t think they’ll just stop a popular project meant to provide power for a region. And in any case 3 years might not finish projects but it might seed a lot of private investment and R&D

It's not a question of being anti-nuclear, is just that nobody is going to pay for it if there are cheaper sources of energy. The only thing that would keep it alive is if the government keeps intentionally killing solar and wind projects.

Re: Jensen: 'We've done our country a great disservice' by offshoring

#160

Post by naasking »

bluedino wrote: post #102
ecshafer wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One of my main arguments for a universal health care scheme in the united states is how horrendously expensive, for employers, health care is. Lets totally ignore efficacy, moral arguments, expense for the patient, etc. If you are a company in the US a large percentage of the effective compensation of employees is healthcare. A moderately good PPO is like ~$10k+ a year per employee. You can pay workers in some other…

> One of my main arguments for a universal health care scheme in the united states is how horrendously expensive The costs need to be fixed, first. Moving to the government/taxes paying for it doesn't fix that.

> Moving to the government/taxes paying for it doesn't fix that.

It kinda does, bigger players have more bargaining power. There is no bigger player than the government in a universal healthcare system.

Furthermore, a significant cost in healthcare is all of the bureaucracy around billing. Much of that goes away with single payer.

Post reply on HN