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ICE is using facial-recognition technology to quickly arrest people

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Re: ICE is using facial-recognition technology to quickly arrest people

#151

Post by 15155 »

bakies wrote: post #150
15155 wrote: post #142

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Criminality doesn't factor into my calculus at all: if you are here without status, you will be removed. Criminal removals should be expedited, no doubt, but even visa overstays should be met with prompt deportation.

they're here with status and going to concentration camps

A popular technique is to conflate illegal immigrants with legal ones for the benefit of argument.

Removals of those with legal status should be corrected! I can simultaneously agree with you on this point and believe that all illegal immigrants should be removed! - this is actually the most fair and just solution to those who bothered to wait in line and follow the proper procedures!

Re: ICE is using facial-recognition technology to quickly arrest people

#152

Post by bakies »

15155 wrote: post #146
bakies wrote: post #140

Earlier quoted context omitted.

no citizens are paid under the table? who pays bills of citizens w/o insurance that are rushed to the emergency room? > My ancestors weren't given free shit upon arrival you sure about that? We're all the same people, stop hating.

> no citizens are paid under the table? Proportionately far fewer, obviously? What? Are you going to honestly try and argue in good faith that per capita, people already breaking laws with no legal means to work are paying taxes at the same rate? Either way: it doesn't matter! > who pays bills of citizens w/o insurance that are rushed to the emergency room? Guess what? - and this might be a hard pill to swallow: we d…

> we don't owe foreigners anything

This isn't true, it's a pillar of the USA to harbor refugees and welcome immigrants. It's our entire history. It's our entire identity.

> Proportionately far fewer, obviously

I dont think so. There's a lot of people in this country, far more citizens than illegal immigrants.

> Not wanting to finance unskilled lawbreakers

capital punishment for every crime if you dont have a degree? what are you arguing?

yes, the argument is immigrants and citizens aren't different. we're all people

Re: ICE is using facial-recognition technology to quickly arrest people

#153

Post by array_key_first »

15155 wrote: post #101
R_D_Olivaw wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My guy, stop with this false point. You're smarter than this. Deep down you know it's not true and it's not being used this way. Clean yourself and your soul.

What about it is false? - Illegal immigrants make the choice to come to the United States for financial enrichment: jobs, handouts. Are you disputing this? - The United States has a notoriously weak social safety net relative to other countries: this is not a disputed fact. - We do not have an unlimited amount of resources: sorry, this is reality, not socialist fantasyland. - Most US citizens do not cover their overa…

> Illegal immigrants are absolutely a net-negative financial, quality-of-life drain on society at large.

I mean - source? Or are we just talking out of our asses?

Just intuitively, most immigrants pay taxes because they work regular jobs. And they're exempt from most social safety nets, too. How are they a net negative? Aren't we, basically, exploiting them, and not the other way around?

I live in Texas, and looking around, I'm gonna tell you right now it's not fatass white people pouring pavement or building homes. It's laborers who, I'm assuming, may or may not have immigrated illegally from Latin America and may or may not be paid a fair wage.

Re: ICE is using facial-recognition technology to quickly arrest people

#154

Post by 15155 »

mindslight wrote: post #148
15155 wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"No empathy" - how about not wanting to fund criminal enterprises using the tax dollars of hard-working Americans? Who has empathy for them - the people financing this "charity?" Why is importing unskilled foreigners the hill to die on?

> not wanting to fund criminal enterprises using the tax dollars of hard-working Americans? Please stick to the point and tell us - if this is your concern then why are you cheering on the large-scale openly criminal enterprise ? The total criminality and total cost of illegal (illegible!) immigrants is dwarfed by the current regime trashing our Constitution, trashing our economy, ballooning the debt, and trashing ou…

Yawn. My concern goes far beyond monetary cost, given that political districts count illegal immigrants for purposes of representation (census) and that birthright citizenship exists.

By encouraging illegal immigration ("sanctuary cities"), you can "buy" depressed wages for the portion of society in need of the most help, House seats, electoral votes, and voters at the expense of the nation's citizenry at large.

Re: ICE is using facial-recognition technology to quickly arrest people

#155

Post by tech_ken »

15155 wrote: post #86
expedition32 wrote: post #79

It's not the technology. The American people voted for this. That is the real discussion you should have. Why do Americans want fascism?

> Why do Americans want fascism? Americans don't want to expend their tax dollars on folks willing to break the law for financial gain.

You'll spend way more tax money to haul them across the border than you would to just print them a permit to live and work in the community they've been contributing to for years. Every study ever conducted on the issue has concluded that undocumented immigrants contribute far more to the economy than they consume in public welfare dollars. You've let the actual tax dollar parasites pawn the blame on a scapegoat because you're addicted to being angry.

Re: ICE is using facial-recognition technology to quickly arrest people

#156

Post by 15155 »

bakies wrote: post #152
15155 wrote: post #146

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> no citizens are paid under the table? Proportionately far fewer, obviously? What? Are you going to honestly try and argue in good faith that per capita, people already breaking laws with no legal means to work are paying taxes at the same rate? Either way: it doesn't matter! > who pays bills of citizens w/o insurance that are rushed to the emergency room? Guess what? - and this might be a hard pill to swallow: we d…

> we don't owe foreigners anything This isn't true, it's a pillar of the USA to harbor refugees and welcome immigrants. It's our entire history. It's our entire identity. > Proportionately far fewer, obviously I dont think so. There's a lot of people in this country, far more citizens than illegal immigrants. > Not wanting to finance unskilled lawbreakers capital punishment for every crime if you dont have a degree?…

> This isn't true, it's a pillar of the USA to harbor refugees and welcome immigrants. It's our entire history. It's our entire identity.

All of these dreamy tales are from before the New Deal for a reason.

> I dont think so. There's a lot of people in this country, far more citizens than illegal immigrants.

The word "proportionately" means something: if you believe that the same percentage of illegal immigrants pay taxes as legal citizens, you are definitively wrong. Legal immigrants probably pay taxes at a higher rate (by systemic design), but there's simply no way this is true for border hoppers.

> capital punishment for every crime if you dont have a degree? what are you arguing?

Deportation is not capital punishment!

Re: ICE is using facial-recognition technology to quickly arrest people

#157

Post by kingkawn »

15155 wrote: post #84
kingkawn wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In both systems the law is being carefully followed to support inhumane goals

Why do we need to give free stuff to every person that wades across the southern border? What is our legal or moral obligation to eviscerate our already-limited social safety net for outsiders who, by and large, do not contribute to them? You are free to die on the cross and spend your income this way, but how is it "humane" to use violence (taxes) to reappropriate the fruits of my labor for your special interests?

Bc these immigrants as a whole contribute more to the federal state and local tax base than they take out, it’s super simple. I guess you don’t like the economy.

Re: ICE is using facial-recognition technology to quickly arrest people

#158

Post by 15155 »

array_key_first wrote: post #153
15155 wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What about it is false? - Illegal immigrants make the choice to come to the United States for financial enrichment: jobs, handouts. Are you disputing this? - The United States has a notoriously weak social safety net relative to other countries: this is not a disputed fact. - We do not have an unlimited amount of resources: sorry, this is reality, not socialist fantasyland. - Most US citizens do not cover their overa…

> Illegal immigrants are absolutely a net-negative financial, quality-of-life drain on society at large. I mean - source? Or are we just talking out of our asses? Just intuitively, most immigrants pay taxes because they work regular jobs. And they're exempt from most social safety nets, too. How are they a net negative? Aren't we, basically, exploiting them, and not the other way around? I live in Texas, and looking…

> most immigrants pay taxes because they work regular jobs

Source? Or are we just talking out of our asses? "Most" means something.

> And they're exempt from most social safety nets, too

Emergency rooms, census, etc. all still apply.

> How are they a net negative?

- Remittances directly take money out of our economy

- Per capita, as with most citizens, they cannot and do not pay their percentage of the government tax burden

- Free use of our social safety nets - ERs, many local government services, schools, etc.

- No community ties: if an illegal immigrant messes up, they can just move on the same way they came in.

- Directly stress an already-strained housing supply (inb4 'they do construction so they increase the supply!')

> Aren't we, basically, exploiting them

Yes! This is bad and needs to stop: by exploiting them (slave labor), we're additionally harming our most vulnerable part of the population - our own unskilled/impoverished workers.

> I'm gonna tell you right now it's not fatass white people pouring pavement or building homes

Because they are being undercut by illegal labor with no protections and lower wages? How is "we need slave labor!" a valid argument?

Re: ICE is using facial-recognition technology to quickly arrest people

#159

Post by 15155 »

tech_ken wrote: post #155
15155 wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Why do Americans want fascism? Americans don't want to expend their tax dollars on folks willing to break the law for financial gain.

You'll spend way more tax money to haul them across the border than you would to just print them a permit to live and work in the community they've been contributing to for years. Every study ever conducted on the issue has concluded that undocumented immigrants contribute far more to the economy than they consume in public welfare dollars. You've let the actual tax dollar parasites pawn the blame on a scapegoat beca…

> You'll spend way more tax money to haul them across the border than you would to just print them a permit to live and work in the community they've been contributing to for years

At the expense of legal immigrants who bothered to do it the right way.

Law enforcement isn't free, unfortunately.

> Every study ever conducted on the issue has concluded that undocumented immigrants contribute far more to the economy than they consume in public welfare dollars

Some of these studies exist for legal immigrants, cite the one making this case for illegals?

Do these "studies" account for second-order effects on housing, local job markets, etc.?

Re: ICE is using facial-recognition technology to quickly arrest people

#160

Post by bakies »

15155 wrote: post #151
bakies wrote: post #150

Earlier quoted context omitted.

they're here with status and going to concentration camps

A popular technique is to conflate illegal immigrants with legal ones for the benefit of argument. Removals of those with legal status should be corrected! I can simultaneously agree with you on this point and believe that all illegal immigrants should be removed! - this is actually the most fair and just solution to those who bothered to wait in line and follow the proper procedures!

> A popular technique is to conflate illegal immigrants with legal ones for the benefit of argument.

Yes, I'm not. The Administration is.

Removing people is cruel. I doubt most deserve it, in fact I know most don't. Deport the actual criminals, sure. That's not what is happening today.

Ideally there is no "line." Proper procedures should be easy. If people are crossing the rivers and crawling through razor wire to get here then the policies make it too hard to enter the country. There's also a good excuse of being afraid of authority. So if they did cross the border improperly (not a criminal offense, btw), I would still like to hear them out and get them documented. Fine them, like the law says.

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