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What happened to all the gold Spain got from the New World? (1985)

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Re: What happened to all the gold Spain got from the New World? (1985)

#151
As the poet Quevedo wrote,

Nace en las Indias honrado, // donde el mundo le acompaña; // viene a morir en España // y es en Génova enterrado.

(Mr. Money) is born in the Indies an honest man, with the world on his side; he comes to Spain to die, and is buried in Genoa.

Re: What happened to all the gold Spain got from the New World? (1985)

#152

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Everything is easier in hindsight isn't it? Especially with such a complex problem. > The COVID restrictions needed to be less and end sooner What would we have been optimizing for here? GDP? Deaths? ICU Capacity? Lifestyle? Or would we weight them? If so would we take 2nd and 3rd order effects into consideration? > An example graph, when restrictions should have been on or off left as an exercise to the reader I liv…

>Everything is easier in hindsight isn't it? Especially with such a complex problem. These sorts of statements are far too often as a justification to dodge responsibility used by those who at the time just poured more virgins into the volcano in a obviously vain attempt to change the weather (or whatever metaphor for "clearly not gonna work but ideologically convenient" you want to use).

By all means after fact have an enquiry into the response and how it could have been better but don't do that without first acknowledging the uncertainty that was present at the time.

Re: What happened to all the gold Spain got from the New World? (1985)

#153

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not so much hindsight as "what I've been saying all along". It was a dynamic situation and it sounds like the only things that you were optimizing for in your mind was inflation and covid deaths whiles ignoring second order effects and data that likely wasn't available to the public. You are like a person who kept telling everyone it was 12:00am but it wasn't, then when it finally became 12:00am and everyone agreed y…

>It's a bit rich to blame all the inflation on the financial response to the pandemic without taking into consideration the effect the pandemic had on logistics or considering what would have happened if the government didn't spend enough. Also it's probably worth mentioning that the Fed operates independently and is tasked with only financial functions. The treasury spent an extra $2 trillion which the Fed facilitat…

So with your 20/20 vision and your ability to see into the future what was the exact dollar amount at the time that you thought should be enough to stop a total meltdown of the US economy? Using logic and reason how did you come to the exact dollar amount that would emotionally appease investors and business providing them with enough "investor confidence"?

The timescale you are looking at is very small. The federal reserve has a dual mandate to have maximum employment and stable prices. What would have happened on a longer timeframe to employment and prices if every other country effectively backstopped their economy but the USA didn't?

It's like you don't know why the fed even came to exist or have any knowledge about the great depression or just fail to recognize how catastrophic that the pandemic was to the USA economy or the world economy as a whole.

Re: What happened to all the gold Spain got from the New World? (1985)

#154

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>It's a bit rich to blame all the inflation on the financial response to the pandemic without taking into consideration the effect the pandemic had on logistics or considering what would have happened if the government didn't spend enough. Also it's probably worth mentioning that the Fed operates independently and is tasked with only financial functions. The treasury spent an extra $2 trillion which the Fed facilitat…

So with your 20/20 vision and your ability to see into the future what was the exact dollar amount at the time that you thought should be enough to stop a total meltdown of the US economy? Using logic and reason how did you come to the exact dollar amount that would emotionally appease investors and business providing them with enough "investor confidence"? The timescale you are looking at is very small. The federal…

You're talking about the Fed, I'm talking about government policy.

>- The COVID free-money needed to be less and to end sooner

>- The COVID restrictions needed to be less and end sooner

Neither of these are about the Fed and that was my original point. It's not clear you were understanding what I've been writing.

Re: What happened to all the gold Spain got from the New World? (1985)

#155
post #112

"while the flood of gold into Spain in the 16th century seemed like a big haul at the time, by modern standards it was a trivial amount. Total world gold production during the 1500s is estimated to have been around 36 tons;" -------------- World silver production during the 16th century was around 23 thousand tons[1]. Silver was closer in value to gold back then too, at around one tenth the value per weight. The econ…

>If you have a mental image of Spanish conquistadors sparking global inflation purely by looting Inca gold, erase it. The real culprit was silver extracted from Potosi and a few other New world mines.

That is when labors start to flood to Netherlands.

Re: What happened to all the gold Spain got from the New World? (1985)

#156
post #2

Marx wrote about commodity fetishism. Perhaps the ultimate version is a belief gold is innately valuable. It has valuable properties, but almost its sole function is to be rare and desirable. That we now use gold for electronics in some ways undermines its rei-ification as the personification of value. Spain fucked up. They mistook the gold for something more valuable than Labor. The Merino sheep of Spain were a bett…

If gold is inherently valueless, then isn’t shipping all of it away immediately to other countries in return for useful goods the most rational thing to do? And if they could get gold at a fraction of the cost of other countries and exchange it for useful goods, isn’t that more rational than building the goods yourself? The Spanish were not stupid and were not acting irrationally — except perhaps thinking on too shor…

They did what was considered the rational at the time.

The modern view would be that investing the money can product long term economic benefits. The Saudis are trying to turn the temporary oil wealth into more permanent economic strength, so they'll remain wealthy when the oil is gone.

Re: What happened to all the gold Spain got from the New World? (1985)

#157

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So with your 20/20 vision and your ability to see into the future what was the exact dollar amount at the time that you thought should be enough to stop a total meltdown of the US economy? Using logic and reason how did you come to the exact dollar amount that would emotionally appease investors and business providing them with enough "investor confidence"? The timescale you are looking at is very small. The federal…

You're talking about the Fed, I'm talking about government policy. >- The COVID free-money needed to be less and to end sooner >- The COVID restrictions needed to be less and end sooner Neither of these are about the Fed and that was my original point. It's not clear you were understanding what I've been writing.

> And with all of this money being injected into the economy, we are absolutely going to get an enormous amount of inflation... eventually. You could see it as already happening with the valuation of the stock market.

To be fair when I read this I assumed you took issue with the actions of both the government and the fed since both were injecting money into the economy. The invocation of Section 13(3) of the Federal Reserve Act also blurred the line between the actions of Government and the fed.

Still I find it odd that you would attribute the inflation solely to the money that was injected into the economy via senate bills but ignore the trillions the fed was injecting into the economy and supply chain disruptions or rising energy costs due to the war in Ukraine.

Re: What happened to all the gold Spain got from the New World? (1985)

#158
post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> They are of poorer quality by every utilitarian measure than a crystal-oscillator driven one, but command much higher prices and status. But the value of the watch is not reducible to its value as a timekeeping device. (Even here, you could argue that the mechanical watch has more instrumental value as a timekeeping device where batteries are unavailable.) A mechanical watch has greater value as a mechanical watch…

> it is mechanically more sophisticated, even if not electronically. It can have greater value as a product of superb craftsmanship or as an object of art. On any objective measurement axis a $15 Casio is more sophisticated than a $10_000 Rolex. I think what we value is the human scale of the Rolex, it operates and is manufactured at a scale we intuitively understand as humans, and we(or at least some people) value t…

[dead]

Re: What happened to all the gold Spain got from the New World? (1985)

#159
post #150

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>In common parlance ex means 'example'. This claim is wrong. You meant to say "ex." is common, noting the period for the abbreviation. Whereas ex is commonly used (See "ex dividend".) as I did above. I'm skipping the rest of your reply because it's a waste of time after you loaded up with a spiteful tone -- "you don't know what you're talking about"-- only to be wrong about language and somehow you dispute the Wikipe…

it's ok, I know you meant for this thread to diverge into pointless arguments. But for everyone else reading: 1. https://www.oed.com/search/dictionary/?scope=Entries&q=ex 2. "Bolsheviks" aren't a nation.

You linked a dictionary that's paywalled and further, all of the 12 stub entries appear to refute your interpreted meaning of "ex" from earlier and affirm my usage.

Are you trying to be ironic?

Also, nobody said #2.

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