Autoland saves King Air, everyone reported safe • Hacker News Board

Re: Autoland saves King Air, everyone reported safe

#151

Post by shmeeed » Mon, Dec 22, 2025, 2:00 PM UTC

WalterBright wrote: post #57

filleduchaos wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What does the AF 449 crash have to do with the existence of a button to return the aircraft to wings level + zero vertical speed? To answer your question though, LVL has been around for close to two decades now. IIRC there was a Cirrus/Garmin partnership that added it to the latter's G1000/GFC 700 and it's since trickled out to other consumer-grade autopilots.

The AF 449 was in a stall, and the pilots panicked and did exactly the wrong thing. The pilot came out of the lavatory and immediately realized what was wrong, and pushed the stick forward. But it was too late. If the captain could figure it out, so could the computer. I recall another crash, not so long ago, of a commuter plane where the wings iced up a bit and the airplane stalled. The crew kept trying to pull the…

(It was AF 447.) I take this opportunity to recommend Admiral Cloudberg's excellent analysis (longread): https://admiralcloudberg.medium.com/the-long-way-down-the-cr...

Re: Autoland saves King Air, everyone reported safe

#152

Post by reactordev » Mon, Dec 22, 2025, 2:13 PM UTC

nradov wrote: post #52

reactordev wrote: post #10

If only Biffle was in a King Air. Awesome to see stuff like this. Light sport aircraft have parachutes. Cool to see safety being incorporated into the avionics and not just flying it, but getting her down safely.

It's not clear what caused the crash of the private jet carrying Greg Biffle and family. The Garmin Autoland system is designed to address pilot incapacitation, not mechanical failures or active pilot errors.

I know. NTSB is on it. It’s just sad. Smaller aircraft should have safety features in case of mechanical issues to be able to bring it down to land without catastrophic injuries.

Not sure why the downvotes when all I want is for someone to live. I understand it’s harder for larger aircraft but anything 8 passenger or less, this should be considered.

My wish is that one day aircraft will operate off batteries that are charged via the fuselage solar panels and that the airframe will be light enough to support “rapid deceleration pods” or other parachute like devices to bring the aircraft to the ground. Larger commercial aircraft can recharge at the gates.

Eliminating the combustible fuel in the wings is another huge win.

Re: Autoland saves King Air, everyone reported safe

#153

Post by Mawr » Mon, Dec 22, 2025, 2:22 PM UTC

m4rtink wrote: post #149

jshier wrote: post #120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Even without autoland, I've never understood why there wasn't an emergency system to handle depressurization events when it detects no pilot input. There have been enough ghost flights, even in the last 20 years, that such a system could've saved hundreds of lives. (Helios Air 552) Automatically dropping altitude, or even just changing the transponder to some automatic value, would help.

I guess in some cases lowering altitude could result in flight into terrain or possibly entering airspace where collision with other aircraft would be more likely ?

Not these days, with detailed terrain maps and GPS + GPWS.

The chances of colliding with anything else would be tiny. In case of other commercial jets zero, thanks to TCAS at the least.

Re: Autoland saves King Air, everyone reported safe

#154

Post by Mawr » Mon, Dec 22, 2025, 2:31 PM UTC

WalterBright wrote: post #26

There needs to be a button on the console of every airplane which is "return the airplane to straight and level".

Let go of the controls.

Re: Autoland saves King Air, everyone reported safe

#155

Post by Mawr » Mon, Dec 22, 2025, 2:34 PM UTC

filleduchaos wrote: post #148

WalterBright wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The AF 449 was in a stall, and the pilots panicked and did exactly the wrong thing. The pilot came out of the lavatory and immediately realized what was wrong, and pushed the stick forward. But it was too late. If the captain could figure it out, so could the computer. I recall another crash, not so long ago, of a commuter plane where the wings iced up a bit and the airplane stalled. The crew kept trying to pull the…

No, one of the pilots put the plane into an aerodynamic stall because they had failed sensors giving them erroneous airspeed information and he kept overriding the other pilot who was doing the correct thing to recover from the stall he had put the aircraft in. What exactly was a computer at the time supposed to figure out with unreliable data, especially after a stall had first developed? Also in fairness I was a bi…

"and he kept overriding the other pilot who was doing the correct thing to recover from the stall he had put the aircraft in."

Yep, the real design problem here is the idiocy of allowing dual input.

Re: Autoland saves King Air, everyone reported safe

#156

Post by duckmysick » Mon, Dec 22, 2025, 2:43 PM UTC

Mawr wrote: post #153

m4rtink wrote: post #149

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I guess in some cases lowering altitude could result in flight into terrain or possibly entering airspace where collision with other aircraft would be more likely ?

Not these days, with detailed terrain maps and GPS + GPWS. The chances of colliding with anything else would be tiny. In case of other commercial jets zero, thanks to TCAS at the least.

GPWS = ground proximity warning system

TCAS = traffic alert and collision avoidance system

Re: Autoland saves King Air, everyone reported safe

#157

Post by MBCook » Mon, Dec 22, 2025, 2:47 PM UTC

CamperBob2 wrote: post #100

charcircuit wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've confirmed with my own 2 eyes cars driving on the road without humans in them. I've also rode in a Waymo which had no driver. They definitely exist. Teslas also have self driving.

These people are basically Moon-landing deniers. They crop up a lot these days, sadly. I wish they'd crop up somewhere else.

I define “self driving car” as level 5. Or at least 4. It should’ve able to drive itself under almost all circumstances. And well.

Tesla isn’t that. Nor Ford. Nor GM. Nor anyone else. Waymo is closest, but they limit the domain and clearly still have issues. Stick a Waymo in snow on rural roads is it good to go? Doubt it.

Re: Autoland saves King Air, everyone reported safe

#158

Post by chartreusegoose » Mon, Dec 22, 2025, 3:43 PM UTC

jshier wrote: post #120

shrubble wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Famously the golfer Payne Stewart and the total of 6 people on the LearJet 35, died after a sudden loss of cabin pressure incapacitated everyone including the pilots. A system like this, would have detected it and possibly saved them. I wouldn't expect a whole lot more detail, as that airport is often used by defense contractors like Ball Aerospace, who have a large office nearby.

Even without autoland, I've never understood why there wasn't an emergency system to handle depressurization events when it detects no pilot input. There have been enough ghost flights, even in the last 20 years, that such a system could've saved hundreds of lives. (Helios Air 552) Automatically dropping altitude, or even just changing the transponder to some automatic value, would help.

Some planes have this, but planes are expensive and last a long time, so a lot of them don't.

Re: Autoland saves King Air, everyone reported safe

#159

Post by jacquesm » Mon, Dec 22, 2025, 3:45 PM UTC

vjvjvjvjghv wrote: post #146

jacquesm wrote: post #129

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've worked with a startup in the medical device space. Well funded. They were indistinguishable from most other startups, except in one detail: they did everything right. They made some extremely high tech stuff, very lightweight, and technology wise they were closer to watchmakers than to software and hardware people. I loved working with them and helped them to improve their yield (their QA was so strict that of t…

From what I have seen startups have it a little easier. They are usually focused on one product and often just get acquired before having to go to market themselves. Selling multiple products worldwide and complying with regulations is a totally different ballgame.

These people are at the 'scale up' stage now and and - successfully - have a foot in the door and are shipping volume all over the world.

So it is definitely possible. But it isn't common, that's definitely true.

Re: Autoland saves King Air, everyone reported safe

#160

Post by Aloha » Mon, Dec 22, 2025, 3:47 PM UTC

HNisCIS wrote: post #23

Aloha wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The only complaint is it uses phonetics for everything multiple times in each transmission, I'm a radio guy, I would use phonetics once, then otherwise spelled out letters - aka, "whiskey lima foxtrot" and WLF the next time I needed to say it.

In aviation you only use phonetics, hams are much less consistent about it so it looks weird from the outside.

I'd actually argue that Aviation is the outlier among Part 90, Amateur, and Public Safety users. The general rule in most radio services is using both phonetics and not, as to try to balance intelligibility and communications density.