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Recovering Anthony Bourdain's Li.st's

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Re: Recovering Anthony Bourdain's Li.st's

#151

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Expat? No! You are an immigrant! This is just anger about the insane double standard at play - if I as a European move to Latin America, I’m a sophisticated expat and they should be happy that my rich ass is living there - whereas when it’s the other way around they are immigrants and treated like actual scum, working the lowest of low jobs. The double standard at play makes me sad and angry even if I’m the one on…

>> RUINED by the (mostly Anglo-Saxon) I've heard that Norman invasion dealt with them long before Santorini became a tourist hotspot. You probably should decrease consumption of content created by russia today.

No idea what’s that is supposed to mean but I got this story from some older Greek people who knew the place before tourist hordes arrived

Re: Recovering Anthony Bourdain's Li.st's

#152

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Expat? No! You are an immigrant! This is just anger about the insane double standard at play - if I as a European move to Latin America, I’m a sophisticated expat and they should be happy that my rich ass is living there - whereas when it’s the other way around they are immigrants and treated like actual scum, working the lowest of low jobs. The double standard at play makes me sad and angry even if I’m the one on…

> These used to be really beautiful and chill places in the 70/80s, now they are horrid Isn’t this a bit of gatekeeping? What do you propose the solution is? Ban tourists? Take it another incremental step and now you’re banning immigrants too. “Don’t visit! Stay in your country!” “Go home tourists/immigrants”, it’s the same song and dance. It’s the same sentiment. There is a solution to the tourist “problem” though,…

There is no absolute solution of course and I don’t really have great ideas.

Mostly it’s rich people exploiting a place until nothing is left - I’ve seen it in my hometown; the lovely neighbourhood i grew up in has been transformed into something entirely different by investors and other leeches until the very thing that made it great is gone

Re: Recovering Anthony Bourdain's Li.st's

#153
post #124
post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I had the same sense. I can see why people like the shows, but to me there's a subtle arrogance to the rich, white American guy just holding court everywhere he goes and explaining local matters as if he's an expert. The food aspect of his shows was often secondary. My most memorable moment from the show was when Bourdain visited some poor farmer to see how they were harvesting yuca (or maybe yams, I forgot) and he…

Jon Krakauer pointed something similar out in relation to the native people around Everest attaining a higher quality of life (and thus more Western lifestyle) as more and more commercial Everest expeditions started happening. Climbing tourists would be complaining that the local culture was being destroyed and that the huts they would visit would have the local kids be wearing, say, a fashion shirt and the huts them…

I think there's a more charitable way to interpret their perspective, as well as that of Bourdain. Climbing Everest is pain, suffering, and a fairly significant chance at death. And practically speaking, to even try to do it in modern times you generally need to be wealthy. So why are these people doing it? Because wealth doesn't provide contentment or satisfaction in life in and of itself. It's people searching for a meaning and purpose in life.

And so when you see people who live lives that are indeed much harder, but for whom there seems to be true meaning and purpose, there's going to be some major internal conflicts in seeing them striving to push that away to pursue something that one knows leads to just vapidness and emptiness in the end. Obviously you might argue that wealth need not trend towards the end of culture, but scarce is the society with a rich culture and a rich economy. Does it even exist?

Like don't you see a paradox in effectively equating a higher quality of life and a more Western lifestyle, when in the West a vast (and rising) percent of people are drugged out on various psychotropic pharmaceuticals just to make it through day to day. Yet look at poorer cultures and it's not like 1 in 6 people are walking around with untreated mental conditions - they simply seem to be far healthier from a mental, to say nothing of physical, perspective.

So I think wealth and quality of life have a far more nuanced relationship than most appreciate. And the ostensible subset relationship (a rich man can easily become poor if he so chooses, but the other way around is much more difficult) is not so simple. Many people are endlessly addicted to things that they genuinely believe make their life worse, and that they could easily cast away, yet find it difficult to do so. See: social media. And obviously casting away wealth is going to be many orders of magnitude more difficult than something like social media.

Re: Recovering Anthony Bourdain's Li.st's

#154
post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is the no true scottsman fallacy of mental health. Oh my god if only you knew how worse it can get. Like you have no comparison, maybe what makes you despair and consider suicide won't make anyone else even budge. The same way you have no way of knowing if I see more or less intense green color, you cannot tell someone they haven't suffered enough.

They clearly did not suffer as much as Anthony Bourdain. This is not a no true Scotsman. It's an observation that OP doesn't know what they're talking about if they're describing suicide as the easy way out.

You do not know what someone else suffers, how can that not be clear to you. Some can suffer 10x what others can without considering suicide once. So no, they haven't "clearly" suffered less, Anthony could simply be a pussy, or the commenter be very brave.

Re: Recovering Anthony Bourdain's Li.st's

#155
post #124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Jon Krakauer pointed something similar out in relation to the native people around Everest attaining a higher quality of life (and thus more Western lifestyle) as more and more commercial Everest expeditions started happening. Climbing tourists would be complaining that the local culture was being destroyed and that the huts they would visit would have the local kids be wearing, say, a fashion shirt and the huts them…

I think there's a more charitable way to interpret their perspective, as well as that of Bourdain. Climbing Everest is pain, suffering, and a fairly significant chance at death. And practically speaking, to even try to do it in modern times you generally need to be wealthy. So why are these people doing it? Because wealth doesn't provide contentment or satisfaction in life in and of itself. It's people searching for…

nice essay, food for thought. Addiction to wealth.

Re: Recovering Anthony Bourdain's Li.st's

#156
post #66
post #63

Loved his series until he visited my hometown and completely misrepresented it. I get his style was anti establishment and mainstream, but he ended up hanging out with the wrong crowd in town, one of them known for being a fraudster, a spoiled child running bad restaurant after bad restaurant. Somehow these guys managed to be featured in the show as the progressive minds of local cuisine. It made me question everythi…

He probably didn’t personally vet the politics behind each person, the production team would’ve organised it in advance and he just turns up and goes along with it. That being said it’s still grounds to be skeptical of his shows. Also, please tell us your town

yeah what's the locale in question? 40% of the internet is BS bots shilling or fighting for engagement.

give us a real location or else we should assume you're spouting BS

for the record I believe Bourdaine could get roped in by scammy local fixers, but "could" doesn't mean "did"

Re: Recovering Anthony Bourdain's Li.st's

#157
post #154

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They clearly did not suffer as much as Anthony Bourdain. This is not a no true Scotsman. It's an observation that OP doesn't know what they're talking about if they're describing suicide as the easy way out.

You do not know what someone else suffers, how can that not be clear to you. Some can suffer 10x what others can without considering suicide once. So no, they haven't "clearly" suffered less, Anthony could simply be a pussy, or the commenter be very brave.

Your confusion stems from the fact that you seem to measure suffering as an external factor.

Two people can have the same exact upbringing yet have vastly different internal experiences. Some people react to negative externalities or internal struggles differently than others.

I make no assumptions about what OP has been through; however it's pretty clear that they have not had Bourdain's experience, and as such clearly lack empathy.

That doesn't mean suffering automatically leads to empathy. But I entirely doubt that OP has experienced enough suffering to know what Bourdain has been through, in order to make such a callous remark.

Re: Recovering Anthony Bourdain's Li.st's

#158
post #149
post #144

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So… except for the places where the concept applies, it doesn’t apply?

In places where the economy is not based on tourism, the percentage of short term rentals rarely exceeds 3% of housing stock.

The original disagreement was (to simplify) around whether locals' objections to tourists was due to economics (housing becoming more expensive), or other possible factors (including xenophobia).

So we seem to have agreed that, yes, in areas where there's a significant influx of tourists (whether short or long-term), there are likely to be sigificant economic factors that might explain the locals' antipathy?

Re: Recovering Anthony Bourdain's Li.st's

#159
post #53

I went down the same rabbit hole and did the exact same thing last week in a fit of procrastination. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=46185128 Would appreciate a shout-out if you saw it and were inspired, otherwise it's nice to see others converging independently on the same thing.

Oh wow! Did not know that—I went off the original post by Greg and he mentioned to me after I sent him this link that someone looked at Common Crawl as well. Either way, I updated both the git and the webpage to shout-out the week-before-this findings! I linked directly to your website, lmk if that's how you prefer it. Cheers!

Much appreciated! I'll update my page to link to your much more polished one too :)
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