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Django 6

docs.djangoproject.com

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Re: Django 6

#151

Post by jasondjk »

rkuykendall-com wrote: post #120
stanislavb wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Have you tried Ruby on Rails. That's my experience with Rails. Everytime I've tried something else (for web dev), I just felt too spoiled with Ruby & Rails and went back. This includes Django and Phoenix (Elixir). Edit: The only thing that Rails lacks is a decent Admin UI included as part of Rails. I know that there are some external gems that can be used, yet that's something that should be part of the framework in…

Even before you get to the lacking Admin UI, the first thing Rails asks me to do is implement authentication. Coming from a true batteries-included framework like Django that feels like a complete non-starter.

Rails now provides an authentication generator that creates a super terse but fully customisable auth capability. Here’s an example: https://insidertrades.directory/built-with-rails/google-sign...

Re: Django 6

#152

Post by gusgus01 »

uniqueuid wrote: post #146
gusgus01 wrote: post #141

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I just verified. You can install Python 2.7 on an up to date Windows install as well as an up to date Linux install. Python 2.7 hasn't received security updates (or really any updates) in years, but that does not mean it can't still work on an up to date OS.

The latest 2.7 seems to have a lot of CVEs (did not verify that manually though) https://www.cvedetails.com/version-list/10210/18230/10/Pytho... IIRC some commercial distros maintain patches for 2.7 but then you're paying for being 15 years behind the future.

Yeah, it's been 5 years (almost 6) since python 2.7 stopped receiving security updates, but it does still run on modern OS's.

Looking at the list, I'm actually kind of surprised there aren't more CVEs for python 2.7, but if you're only running it locally or on an intranet I could see letting it ride.

Re: Django 6

#153

Post by OoooooooO »

jim180 wrote: post #147
SteveNuts wrote: post #137

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s very likely that project is a security nightmare. Just an OS old enough to support 2.7 would be problematic.

wouldn't it be faster/safer to upgrade to latest django/python rather than rewrite it in React/Go?

Python 2 to Python 3 in a Django codebase ... may be a full rewrite anyway.

Re: Django 6

#154

Post by Lio »

BowBun wrote: post #116
megaman821 wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Rails tries to more tightly integrate with the front-end which causes a lot of turn over the years. Django projects from 10 years ago are still upgradable in a day or two. Rails does include some nice stuff though, but I much prefer Django's code first database models than Rail's ActiveRecord.

I do agree that Rails' asset stuff has been giant pain over the years and has not kept up well. On the other hand, some apps that adopted separate Rails APIs and a separate (for example, React) frontend have been fine. You're right though that their opinion here added more headaches that necessary!

I’d agree in that I never things like Coffeescript but I think that Rails’ frontend solution since 7.0 of Hotwire has been excellent.

Being able to sprinkle just enough JavaScript on server rended HTML works really well. That you can now use it iOS and Android apps too makes it a simpler alternative to React IMHO.

I still much prefer server rendering in a monolith than dealing with GraphQL, backend for frontend and the complexity of micro services and distributed transactions.

BTW Hotwire and Hotwire Native are also options for Django too.

Re: Django 6

#155

Post by ptx »

blagie wrote: post #138
chistev wrote: post #132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why would they retire it? If it ain't broke...

"Fun" isn't the same thing as "functional." I remember having great fun in QuickBASIC. And my son enjoys Scratch. Django code is much more fun to work with than Node, but I can't imagine developing something competitive in it in 2025 to what I'm developing in Node. Node is a pain in the butt, but at the end of the day, competitiveness is about what you deliver to the user, not how much fun you have along the way. * I…

The lithium-ion battery analogy seems fitting: When we're not careful about sourcing those modern batteries from a trustworthy supply-chain, they tend to explode and injure the user.

Re: Django 6

#156

Post by Lio »

wg0 wrote: post #13

Can someone remind me how we ended up in the SPA era and why exactly? Was it about not seeing the loading spinner? Or there were more reasons to it?

I’d say that we are slaves to Conway’s Law.

Adding people to dev teams looks like an obvious way to scale productivity.

Then of course you need to organise them as the numbers grow and the frontend/backend split is the first, naive, place to start.

Re: Django 6

#157

Post by 0xblinq »

Genego wrote: post #102
0xblinq wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That’s true as long as you are only talking about the backend. Frontend wise, Django is in the Stone Age. Look at Laravel or rails if you want a really complete full stack solution.

I feel very comfortable with Django on the frontend, what are you missing there? I usually use Tailwind or Bulma, with HTMX and AlpineJs. I feel like the experience can be very much React like, even if you leave out HTMX. The frontend game of Django really changed about 2 years ago (at least for me).

Glad to hear that works for you. But nothing of what you are mentioning is part of Django, nor an official package,etc.

And I’m not going to get into the details of whether that stack would work for non backend developers, developers working on medium/large projects and/or medium/large teams. That’s a separate and unrelated discussion.

But compare what Django brings you (Stone Age templating system and that’s it) to what Laravel provides out of the box (or via official packages) like assets bundling, live reloading, an amazing and modern template system with proper “component like” partials or even if you need them, the “big guns” such as Inertia or Livewire. More or less the same is true for Rails with the Hotwire stuff.

There’s absolutely no point of comparison here. Even if that works for you, Django is not even in the same league.

It is still a great backend framework though, which was my point.

Re: Django 6

#158

Post by dirk27 »

OoooooooO wrote: post #153
jim180 wrote: post #147

Earlier quoted context omitted.

wouldn't it be faster/safer to upgrade to latest django/python rather than rewrite it in React/Go?

Python 2 to Python 3 in a Django codebase ... may be a full rewrite anyway.

Many people migrated Django projects from 2 -> 3. Certainly something that takes effort, but hardly a rewrite.

Re: Django 6

#159

Post by 0xblinq »

leetrout wrote: post #119
Genego wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I feel very comfortable with Django on the frontend, what are you missing there? I usually use Tailwind or Bulma, with HTMX and AlpineJs. I feel like the experience can be very much React like, even if you leave out HTMX. The frontend game of Django really changed about 2 years ago (at least for me).

Laravel's Blade templates are just absolutely phenomenal. The partial rendering, the integration with Livewire, the first class component paradigm. It's just far beyond stock Django / Jinja at this point and delivers some serious dev experience performance boosts. https://laravel.com/docs/12.x/blade

Haters are downvoting you probably because of mentioning anything PHP related.

But what you say is true. Blade is amazing.

Re: Django 6

#160

Post by inemesitaffia »

gusgus01 wrote: post #152
uniqueuid wrote: post #146

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The latest 2.7 seems to have a lot of CVEs (did not verify that manually though) https://www.cvedetails.com/version-list/10210/18230/10/Pytho... IIRC some commercial distros maintain patches for 2.7 but then you're paying for being 15 years behind the future.

Yeah, it's been 5 years (almost 6) since python 2.7 stopped receiving security updates, but it does still run on modern OS's. Looking at the list, I'm actually kind of surprised there aren't more CVEs for python 2.7, but if you're only running it locally or on an intranet I could see letting it ride.

There are variants of Python 2.7 that are supported
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