Does this count as enshittification?
Kohler Can Access Pictures from "End-to-End Encrypted" Toilet Camera
151–160 of 227 posts
Re: Kohler Can Access Pictures from "End-to-End Encrypted" Toilet Camera
#152Earlier quoted context omitted.
I wasn't a network engineer, but to my recollection "end-to-end encryption" was only used occasionally, probably by people not too knowledgeable in cryptography
Well respectfully your recollection is missing lots of references by people that were "knowledgeable in cryptography". You can easily find these references in the literature, often comparing link encryption with end-to-end encryption. Some of the earliest papers outlining the plans for SSL in the 90s (Analysis of the SSL 3.0 Protocol) are based on this exact foundation from the 80s (End-To-End Arguments in System Des…
With three citations I was about to give in, and accept that my experience might have been limited, but then I checked those citations and... are you trolling? Or were those given you by an llm?
1. "End-To-End Arguments in System Design" (https://web.mit.edu/Saltzer/www/publications/endtoend/endtoe...) argues that it's appropriate to perform various functions at the high-level, application, ends, rather than for example leaving encryption to devices external to the hosts.
It's really a stretch to affirm that it considers "end-to-end encryption" a proper term for transport, client-server encryption.
Actually, I'd say that transport-level, origin-server -> server-destination encryption is precisely one of the things that the paper would not consider end-to-end.
2. "Analysis of the SSL 3.0 Protocol" (https://www.schneier.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/09/paper-ss...):
a. it doesn't "outline the plans for ssl", it's an analysis of its third version???
b. It doesn't reference "End-To-End Arguments in System Design" anywhere, and doesn't even contain the expression "end-to-end"
Its usage of end-to-end encryption is defined in the paper that's being criticized (https://dl.acm.org/doi/pdf/10.1145/1499799.1499812): «The term end to-end encryption refers to data being enciphered at the source and remaining unintelligible until it deciphered at its final destination.»
Re: Kohler Can Access Pictures from "End-to-End Encrypted" Toilet Camera
#153"Hey man, we didn't specify where the ends are."
Re: Kohler Can Access Pictures from "End-to-End Encrypted" Toilet Camera
#154The Norwegian term for e2ee is "ende-til-ende-kryptering". And "ende" can also mean 'butt' https://naob.no/ordbok/ende_3#52867988 So I guess it makes some kind of sense.
Rear-end-to-end encryption, if you will.
Re: Kohler Can Access Pictures from "End-to-End Encrypted" Toilet Camera
#155Earlier quoted context omitted.
You could have a classifier running on-device that sends summary data (rather than raw images) back to Kohler.
Yeah, it’s kinda like such a reasonable thing too Doing on device compute is probably expensive and would prohibit such a product based on the economics but ITS A GENITAL CAM
Isn’t it more of a poo cam if it’s pointed down?
Re: Kohler Can Access Pictures from "End-to-End Encrypted" Toilet Camera
#156How does one "train" an AI with a flood of random toilet pictures and no corresponding medical data to match it with?
You pay someone in a developing nation $1.00 per day to look at thousands of photos of shit. Like, how do people think Facebook moderation and semantic labeling happen? Cheap labor in places with no labor laws. It was ever thus.
Appropriate username.
And oh dear, that’s all too realistic. Imagine responding to the job posting and finding out these are the images you’ll be classifying.
Re: Kohler Can Access Pictures from "End-to-End Encrypted" Toilet Camera
#157Earlier quoted context omitted.
Creating a new term for the less secure definition doesn't work, as they'll just continue to call it E2EE encrypted.
I think part of the problem is that prior to WhatsApp's E2EE implementation in like 2014, TLS was very often called "End to End Encryption" as the ends were Client and Server/Service Provider. It got redefined and now the new usage is way more popular than the old one. I can't blame most people for calling TLS "E2EE", even some folks in industry, but it's not great for a company to advertise that you offer X if the m…
> prior to WhatsApp's E2EE implementation in like 2014, TLS was very often called "End to End Encryption"
That's pretty wild
The reason that a different term had to be invented was that some centralized messaging system defined itself as "encrypted" when it begun to use TLS.
It would have been stupid to pick a term commonly used for TLS to differentiate yourself from TLS
Re: Kohler Can Access Pictures from "End-to-End Encrypted" Toilet Camera
#158Earlier quoted context omitted.
I have never seen "e2ee" abused this way personally.
There was a discussion here on hn about OpenAI and it's privacy. Same confusion about e2ee. Users thinking e2ee is possible when you chat with an ai agent. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=45908891
I saw a YouTube video claim similar levels of privacy are possible using trusted computing.
Re: Kohler Can Access Pictures from "End-to-End Encrypted" Toilet Camera
#159So basically their marketing-department is abusing a security term in order to sound good, as opposed to a software flaw. They're claiming "end to end" encryption, which usually implies the service is unable to spy on individual users that are communicating to one-another over an individualized channel. However in this case there are no other users, and their server is one of the "ends" doing the communicating, which…
This is exactly what E2EE means. I used to work at a bank, and our data was E2EE, and we had to certify that it was E2EE - from the person paying, through the networks, through the DNS and Load balancers, until it got to the servers. Only at the servers could it be unencrypted and a (authoried) human could look at it. Of course, only authorized users could see the data, but that was a different compliance line item.
It sounds like one term is being used for two very different things.
Re: Kohler Can Access Pictures from "End-to-End Encrypted" Toilet Camera
#160Kohler can "de-identify [the user’s] data for lawful purposes." I mean exactly how would that ever be justified? "Hey, we see a man-sized log in the bowl. There's only supposed to be women there. The perp must be in that house!!!"
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