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IBM CEO says there is 'no way' spending on AI data centers will pay off

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Re: IBM CEO says there is 'no way' spending on AI data centers will pay off

#151

Post by estearum »

dotancohen wrote: post #148
estearum wrote: post #142

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The US has built its physical infrastructure to make familial interdependence extremely difficult and often impossible. Too monotonous housing mixes over too large of areas.

Large houses make familial interdependence extremely difficult? That doesn't make sense. Or did I misunderstood? I don't live in the US.

Most people don't have houses large enough to house multiple generations inside the house. Houses are sized for parents + kids. And those are the only dwelling units available or legally allowed for vast distances in any direction.

Re: IBM CEO says there is 'no way' spending on AI data centers will pay off

#152

Post by limagnolia »

dkural wrote: post #61
ayaros wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm a younger millennial. I'm always seeing homeless people in my city and it's an issue that I think about on a daily basis. Couldn't we have spent the money on homeless shelters and food and other things? So many people are in poverty, they can't afford basic necessities. The world is shitty. Yes, I know it's all capital from VC firms and investment firms and other private sources , but it's still capital . It shou…

[ This comment I'm making is USA centric. ]. I agree with the idea of making our society better and more equitable - reducing homelessness, hunger, poverty, especially for our children. However, I think redirecting this to AI datacenter spending is a red-herring, here's why I think this: As a society we give a significant portion of our surplus to government. We then vote on what the government should spend this on.…

You can increase min wage all you want, if there aren't enough homes in an area for everyone who works full time in that area to have one, you will still have folks who work full time who don't have one. In fact, increasing min wage too much will exacerbate the problem by making it more expensive to build more (and maintain those that exist). Though at some point, it will fix the problem too, because everyone will move and then there will be plenty of homes for anyone who wants one.

Re: IBM CEO says there is 'no way' spending on AI data centers will pay off

#153

Post by kipchak »

dkural wrote: post #61
ayaros wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm a younger millennial. I'm always seeing homeless people in my city and it's an issue that I think about on a daily basis. Couldn't we have spent the money on homeless shelters and food and other things? So many people are in poverty, they can't afford basic necessities. The world is shitty. Yes, I know it's all capital from VC firms and investment firms and other private sources , but it's still capital . It shou…

[ This comment I'm making is USA centric. ]. I agree with the idea of making our society better and more equitable - reducing homelessness, hunger, poverty, especially for our children. However, I think redirecting this to AI datacenter spending is a red-herring, here's why I think this: As a society we give a significant portion of our surplus to government. We then vote on what the government should spend this on.…

>We need to change our politics to redirect taxation and spending to achieve a better society.

Unfortunately, I'm not sure there's much on the pie chart to redirect percentage wise. About 60% goes to non-discretionary programs like Social Security and Medicaid, and 13% is interest expense. While "non-discretionary" programs can potentially be cut, doing so is politically toxic and arguably counter to the goal of a better society.

Of the remaining discretionary portion half is programs like veterans benefits, transportation, education, income security and health (in order of size), and half military.

FY2025 spending in total was 3% over FY2024, with interest expense, social security and medicare having made up most of the increase ($249 billion)[1], and likely will for the foreseeable future[2] in part due to how many baby boomers are entering retirement years.

Assuming you cut military spending in half you'd free up only about 6% of federal spending. Moving the needle more than this requires either cutting programs and benefits, improving efficiency of existing spend (like for healthcare) or raising more revenue via taxes or inflation. All of this is potentially possible, but the path of least resistance is probably inflation.

[1] https://bipartisanpolicy.org/report/deficit-tracker/

[2] https://www.crfb.org/blogs/interest-social-security-and-heal...

Re: IBM CEO says there is 'no way' spending on AI data centers will pay off

#154

Post by SequoiaHope »

_menelaus wrote: post #116
armitron wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

[flagged]

A broad social safety net makes a huge difference. It’s not just housing it’s socialized medicine, paid family leave, good transit, free high quality education, solving fewer problems with police and more with social support programs and social workers, free meal programs for adults and children in schools, libraries, and a variety of other programs that help ensure people don’t fall through the cracks here or there. How many people in the US are teetering on the edge of homelessness due to medical debt, and what happens if their partner is in an accident and they lose shared income for rent? Situations like this don’t have a single solution it’s a system of solutions.

Re: IBM CEO says there is 'no way' spending on AI data centers will pay off

#155

Post by limagnolia »

QuercusMax wrote: post #85
newfriend wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Technological advancement is what has pulled billions of people out of poverty. Giving handouts to layabouts isn't an ideal allocation of resources if we want to progress as a civilization.

Lots of people lose their housing when they lose employment, and then they're stuck and can't get back into housing. A very large percentage of unhoused people are working jobs; they're not all "layabouts". We know that just straight up giving money to the poorest of the poor results in positive outcomes.

"A very large percentage"

Exactly how large are we talking here?

I have known quite a few 'unhoused' folk, and not many that had jobs. Those that do tend to find housing pretty quickly (Granted, my part of the country is probably different from your part, but I am interested in stats from any region).

Re: IBM CEO says there is 'no way' spending on AI data centers will pay off

#156

Post by IAmGraydon »

ayaros wrote: post #37
scroot wrote: post #24

As an elder millennial, I just don't know what to say. That a once in a generation allocation of capital should go towards...whatever this all will be, is certainly tragic given current state of the world and its problems. Can't help but see it as the latest in a lifelong series of baffling high stakes decisions of dubious social benefit that have necessarily global consequences.

I'm a younger millennial. I'm always seeing homeless people in my city and it's an issue that I think about on a daily basis. Couldn't we have spent the money on homeless shelters and food and other things? So many people are in poverty, they can't afford basic necessities. The world is shitty. Yes, I know it's all capital from VC firms and investment firms and other private sources , but it's still capital . It shou…

The older I get, the more I realize that our choices in life come down to two options: benefit me or benefit others. The first one leads to nearly every trouble we have in the world. The second nearly always leads to happiness, whether directly or indirectly. Our bias as humans has always been toward the first, but our evolution is and will continue to slowly bring us toward the second option. Beyond simple reproduction, this realization is our purpose, in my opinion.

Re: IBM CEO says there is 'no way' spending on AI data centers will pay off

#157

Post by mattbrewsbytes »

There is something to be said about what the ROI is for normal (i.e. non AI/tech) companies using AI. AI can help automate things, robots have been replacing manufacturing jobs for decades but there is an ROI on that which I think is easier to see and count, less humans in the factory, etc. There seems to be a lot of exaggerated things being said these days with AI and the AI companies have only begun to raise rates, they won't go down.

The AI bubble will burst when normal companies start to not realize their revenue/profit goals and have to answer investor relations calls about that.

Re: IBM CEO says there is 'no way' spending on AI data centers will pay off

#158

Post by bluGill »

rlpb wrote: post #16
bluGill wrote: post #10

I question depreciation. those gpu's will be obsolete in 5 years, but will the newer be enough better as to be worth replacing them is an open question. cpu's stopped getting exponetially faster 20 years ago, (they are faster but not the jumps the 1990s got)

> those gpu's will be obsolete in 5 years, but will the newer be enough better as to be worth replacing them is an open question Doesn't one follow from the other? If newer GPUs aren't worth an upgrade, then surely the old ones aren't obsolete by definition.

There is the question - will they be worth the upgrade? Either because they are that much faster, or that much more energy efficient. (and also assuming you can get them, unobtainium is worth that what you have).

Also a nod to the other reply that suggests they will wear out in 5 years. I cannot comment on if that is correct but it is a valid worry.

Re: IBM CEO says there is 'no way' spending on AI data centers will pay off

#159

Post by reactordev »

saulpw wrote: post #102
reactordev wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I threw in the towel in April. It's clear we are Wile E. Coyote running in the air already past the cliff and we haven't fallen yet.

What does it mean to throw in the towel, in your case? Divesting from the stock market? Moving to a hobby farm? Giving up on humanity?

Any dream of owning a home, having retirement, even a career after a couple years when it’s clear I’m over the hump. I’m trying to squeeze as much as I can before that happens and squirrel it away so at least I can have a van down by a river.

Re: IBM CEO says there is 'no way' spending on AI data centers will pay off

#160

Post by dkural »

limagnolia wrote: post #152
dkural wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[ This comment I'm making is USA centric. ]. I agree with the idea of making our society better and more equitable - reducing homelessness, hunger, poverty, especially for our children. However, I think redirecting this to AI datacenter spending is a red-herring, here's why I think this: As a society we give a significant portion of our surplus to government. We then vote on what the government should spend this on.…

You can increase min wage all you want, if there aren't enough homes in an area for everyone who works full time in that area to have one, you will still have folks who work full time who don't have one. In fact, increasing min wage too much will exacerbate the problem by making it more expensive to build more (and maintain those that exist). Though at some point, it will fix the problem too, because everyone will mo…

I agree with you 100%! Any additional surplus will be extracted as rents, when housing is restricted. I am for passing laws that make it much easier for people to obtain permits to build housing where there is demand. Too much of residential zoning is single-family housing. Texas does a better job at not restricting housing than California, for example. Many towns vote blue, talk to talk, but do not walk the walk.
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