Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

DeepSeek-v3.2: Pushing the frontier of open large language models [pdf]

huggingface.co

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

151–160 of 485 posts

Re: DeepSeek-v3.2: Pushing the frontier of open large language models [pdf]

#151

Post by niek_pas »

jonplackett wrote: post #139
gradus_ad wrote: post #101

How will the Google/Anthropic/OpenAI's of the world make money on AI if open models are competitive with their models? What hurt open source in the past was its inability to keep up with the quality and feature depth of closed source competitors, but models seem to be reaching a performance plateau; the top open weight models are generally indistinguishable from the top private models. Infrastructure owners with acce…

Either... Better (UX / ease of use) Lock in (walled garden type thing) Trust (If an AI is gonna have the level of insight into your personal data and control over your life, a lot of people will prefer to use a household name)

> Trust (If an AI is gonna have the level of insight into your personal data and control over your life, a lot of people will prefer to use a household name.

Not Google, and not Amazon. Microsoft is a maybe.

Re: DeepSeek-v3.2: Pushing the frontier of open large language models [pdf]

#152

Post by josh_p »

ptsneves wrote: post #107
jascha_eng wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Oh they need control of models to be able to censor and ensure whatever happens inside the country with AI stays under their control. But the open-source part? Idk I think they do it to mess with the US investment and for the typical open source reasons of companies: community, marketing, etc. But tbh especially the messing with the US, as a european with no serious competitor, I can get behind.

This is the rare earth minerals dumping all over again. Devalue to such a price as to make the market participants quit, so they can later have a strategic stranglehold on the supply. This is using open source in a bit of different spirit than the hacker ethos, and I am not sure how I feel about it. It is a kind of cheat on the fair market but at the same time it is also costly to China and its capital costs may beco…

Isn’t it already well accepted that the LLM market exists in a bubble with a handful of companies artificially inflating their own values?

ESH

Re: DeepSeek-v3.2: Pushing the frontier of open large language models [pdf]

#153

Post by kriops »

nagaiaida wrote: post #125
siliconc0w wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

on what hypothetical grounds would you be more meaningfully able to sue the american maker of a self-hosted statistical language model that you select your own runtime sampling parameters for after random subtle security vulnerabilities came out the other side when you asked it for very secure code? put another way, how do you propose to tell this subtle nefarious chinese sabotage you baselessly imply to be commonpla…

[flagged]

Re: DeepSeek-v3.2: Pushing the frontier of open large language models [pdf]

#154

Post by dotancohen »

torginus wrote: post #34
noosphr wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Home rigs like that are no longer cost effective. You're better off buying an rtx pro 6000 outright. This holds both for the sticker price, the supporting hardware price, the electricity cost to run it and cooling the room that you use it in.

I was just watching this video about a Chinese piece of industrial equipment, designed for replacing BGA chips such as flash or RAM with a good deal of precision: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zwHqO1mnMsA I wonder how well the aftermarket memory surgery business on consumer GPUs is doing.

I wonder how well the opthalmologist is doing. These guys are going to be paying him a visit playing around with those lasers and no PPE.

Re: DeepSeek-v3.2: Pushing the frontier of open large language models [pdf]

#155

Post by [deleted] »

jascha_eng wrote: post #88
catigula wrote: post #81

To push back on naivety I'm sensing here I think it's a little silly to see Chinese Communist Party backed enterprise as somehow magnanimous and without ulterior, very harmful motive.

Oh they need control of models to be able to censor and ensure whatever happens inside the country with AI stays under their control. But the open-source part? Idk I think they do it to mess with the US investment and for the typical open source reasons of companies: community, marketing, etc. But tbh especially the messing with the US, as a european with no serious competitor, I can get behind.

[deleted]

Re: DeepSeek-v3.2: Pushing the frontier of open large language models [pdf]

#156

Post by poszlem »

jonplackett wrote: post #139
gradus_ad wrote: post #101

How will the Google/Anthropic/OpenAI's of the world make money on AI if open models are competitive with their models? What hurt open source in the past was its inability to keep up with the quality and feature depth of closed source competitors, but models seem to be reaching a performance plateau; the top open weight models are generally indistinguishable from the top private models. Infrastructure owners with acce…

Either... Better (UX / ease of use) Lock in (walled garden type thing) Trust (If an AI is gonna have the level of insight into your personal data and control over your life, a lot of people will prefer to use a household name)

Or lobbing for regulations. You know. The "only american models are safe" kind of regulation.

Re: DeepSeek-v3.2: Pushing the frontier of open large language models [pdf]

#157

Post by agumonkey »

skeledrew wrote: post #80
agumonkey wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

forgive me for bringing politics into it, are chinese LLM more prone to censorship bias than US ones ?

It's not about a LLM being prone to anything, but more about the way a LLM is fine-tuned (which can be subject to the requirements of those wielding political power).

that's what i meant even though i could have been more precise

Re: DeepSeek-v3.2: Pushing the frontier of open large language models [pdf]

#159

Post by polyomino »

niek_pas wrote: post #151
jonplackett wrote: post #139

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Either... Better (UX / ease of use) Lock in (walled garden type thing) Trust (If an AI is gonna have the level of insight into your personal data and control over your life, a lot of people will prefer to use a household name)

> Trust (If an AI is gonna have the level of insight into your personal data and control over your life, a lot of people will prefer to use a household name. Not Google, and not Amazon. Microsoft is a maybe.

The success of Facebook basically proves that public brand perception does not matter at all

Re: DeepSeek-v3.2: Pushing the frontier of open large language models [pdf]

#160

Post by acephal »

polyomino wrote: post #159
niek_pas wrote: post #151

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Trust (If an AI is gonna have the level of insight into your personal data and control over your life, a lot of people will prefer to use a household name. Not Google, and not Amazon. Microsoft is a maybe.

The success of Facebook basically proves that public brand perception does not matter at all

Facebook itself still has a big problem with it's lack of youth audience though. Zuck captured the boomers and older Gen X, which are the biggest demos of living people however.
Post reply on HN