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PS5 now costs less than 64GB of DDR5 memory. RAM jumps to $600 due to shortage

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Re: PS5 now costs less than 64GB of DDR5 memory. RAM jumps to $600 due to shortage

#151

Post by jayd16 »

pmdr wrote: post #98

So, like, we were already pretty much priced out of higher-end graphic cards, and now it's happening to RAM. All this while jobs are disappearing, layoffs are ongoing and CEOs are touting AI's 'capabilities' left and right. Next is probably CPUs, even if AIs don't use them that much, manufactures will shift production to something more profitable, then gouge prices so that only enterprises will pay for them. What's n…

>Where the f*k is all the abundance that AI was supposed to bring into the world?

That'll come with the bubble bursting and the mass sell off.

Re: PS5 now costs less than 64GB of DDR5 memory. RAM jumps to $600 due to shortage

#152

Post by Spooky23 »

timschmidt wrote: post #56
caycep wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's a sad trend for "the rest of us" and history in general. The economic boom of the 80's thru the 2010s has been a vast democratization of computation - hardware became more powerful and affordable, and algorithms (at least broadly if not individually) became more efficient. We all had supercomputers in our pockets. This AI movement seems to move things in the opposite direction, in that us plebeians have less and…

One can see it that way, granted. When I zoom all the way out, all of consumer computation has existed as sort of an addendum or ancillary organ to the big customers: government, large corporations, etc. All our beloved consumer tech started out as absurdly high priced niche stuff for them. We've been sold the overflow capacity and binned parts. And that seems to be a more-or-less natural consequence of large purchas…

100%. We’ve seen crazy swings in RAM prices before.

A colleague who worked with me about 10 years ago on a VDI project ran some numbers and showed that if a Time Machine were available, we could have brought like 4 loaded MacBook Pros back and replaced a $1M HP 3PAR ssd array :)

Re: PS5 now costs less than 64GB of DDR5 memory. RAM jumps to $600 due to shortage

#153

Post by moribvndvs »

pmdr wrote: post #98

So, like, we were already pretty much priced out of higher-end graphic cards, and now it's happening to RAM. All this while jobs are disappearing, layoffs are ongoing and CEOs are touting AI's 'capabilities' left and right. Next is probably CPUs, even if AIs don't use them that much, manufactures will shift production to something more profitable, then gouge prices so that only enterprises will pay for them. What's n…

> What's next? Electricity?

Yes. My electricity prices jumped 50% in 3 years.

Re: PS5 now costs less than 64GB of DDR5 memory. RAM jumps to $600 due to shortage

#155

Post by b112 »

buildbot wrote: post #116
consp wrote: post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Even ECC modules use regular memory chips, but with extra chips added for the ECC capacity. Quite a few unbuffered designs in the past had a "missing chip". If you ever wondered why a chip was missing on your stick, it's missing ECC. Don't know if it's still the case with DDR5 though.

I have not seen that yet DDR5, I think the signal integrity requirements are too high now to even have unused pads open. Most sticks don’t appear to have many traces at all on the top/bottom sides, just big power/ground planes. Also with DDR5 each stick is actually 2 channels so you get 2 extra dies.

There's some new half assed ECC type of RAM, not sure the name.

Was reading a series of displeased posts about it. Can't seem to find it now.

Re: PS5 now costs less than 64GB of DDR5 memory. RAM jumps to $600 due to shortage

#156

Post by kristianp »

merelysounds wrote: post #84

In case anyone else wanted to check, PS5 has[1]: > Memory: 16 GB GDDR6 SDRAM So unless the RAM price jumps to 4x the price of a PS5, getting a PS5 is not the most cost efficient way to get to 64 GB of RAM. In comparison, PS3 has been used to build cheap clusters[2]. [1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PlayStation_5 [2]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PlayStation_3_cluster

Yes, stupid comparison really. Also 64GB is pretty high-end from a consumer perspective. Most would do just fine with 32 as 2x16GB.

Re: PS5 now costs less than 64GB of DDR5 memory. RAM jumps to $600 due to shortage

#157

Post by csdreamer7 »

zozbot234 wrote: post #107
pmdr wrote: post #98

So, like, we were already pretty much priced out of higher-end graphic cards, and now it's happening to RAM. All this while jobs are disappearing, layoffs are ongoing and CEOs are touting AI's 'capabilities' left and right. Next is probably CPUs, even if AIs don't use them that much, manufactures will shift production to something more profitable, then gouge prices so that only enterprises will pay for them. What's n…

Actually, this seems to be mostly a spike in retail prices, not wholesale DRAM contracts that are only up 60% or so in the past few months according to Samsung. So we should most likely place at least some fraction of the blame on our fellow consumers for overreacting to the news and hoarding RAM at overinflated prices. DRAM sticks are the new toilet paper.

> Actually, this seems to be mostly a spike in retail prices, not wholesale DRAM contracts that are only up 60% or so in the past few months according to Samsung. So we should most likely place at least some fraction of the blame on our fellow consumers for overreacting to the news and hoarding RAM at overinflated prices. DRAM sticks are the new toilet paper.

What is your source on that? Moore's Law is Dead directly contradicts your claims by saying that OpenAI has purchased unfinished wafers to squeeze the market.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BORRBce5TGw

Re: PS5 now costs less than 64GB of DDR5 memory. RAM jumps to $600 due to shortage

#158

Post by AngryData »

immibis wrote: post #78
caycep wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's a sad trend for "the rest of us" and history in general. The economic boom of the 80's thru the 2010s has been a vast democratization of computation - hardware became more powerful and affordable, and algorithms (at least broadly if not individually) became more efficient. We all had supercomputers in our pockets. This AI movement seems to move things in the opposite direction, in that us plebeians have less and…

It's not like you need 64GB to have "democratized computation". We used to have 64MB and that was plenty. Unfortunately, software got slower more quickly than hardware got quicker.

It is pretty important if you are doing things like 3d animation, video editing, or advanced CAD software. Plus software in general has ballooned its memory requirements and expectations. Even my 11 year old PC had to have a RAM upgrade a few years ago just because software updates suck up so much extra memory, and there is almost nothing consumers can do about it.

Re: PS5 now costs less than 64GB of DDR5 memory. RAM jumps to $600 due to shortage

#159

Post by AngryData »

j45 wrote: post #75
timschmidt wrote: post #16

Potentially unpopular take: memory manufacturers have been operating on the margins of profitability for quite a while now. Their products are essentially an indistinguishable commodity. Memory from Samsung or Micron or another manufacturer may have slight differences in overclockability, but that matters little to folks who just want a stable system. Hopefully the shortage leads large purchasers to engage in long-te…

Manufacturing is based on anticipating demand. Unforseen things like the pandemic hurt profits. Letting things go this unmanaged with a 3 year run way for AI demand seems a little hard to understand. In this case, not anticipating demand seems to creates more profit.

I find it hard to believe the pandemic hurt the profits of computing hardware, demand went up from it not down.

Re: PS5 now costs less than 64GB of DDR5 memory. RAM jumps to $600 due to shortage

#160

Post by justaboutanyone »

throwaway2037 wrote: post #144
Aurornis wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Hopefully the shortage leads large purchasers to engage in long-term contracts with the memory manufacturers which give them the confidence to invest in new fabs and increased capacity. Most DRAM is already purchased through contracts with manufacturers. Manufacturers don't actually want too many extremely long term contracts because it would limit their ability to respond to market price changes. Like most commodi…

> Manufacturers don't actually want too many extremely long term contracts because it would limit their ability to respond to market price changes. I don't agree with this sentence. Why would not the same apply advice to oil and gas contracts? If you look at the size and duration of oil and gas contracts for major energy importers, they often run 10 years or more. Some of the contracts in Japan and Korea are so large…

> Except silicon, power, and water

Various chemicals too, https://haz-map.com/Processes/97

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