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Lockitron: Keyless entry using your phone

lockitron.com

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Re: Lockitron: Keyless entry using your phone

#151

Post by run4yourlives »

urza wrote: post #143
pg wrote: post #10

We use Lockitron on our offices and it has saved us a lot of trouble. Empirically people are a lot less likely to forget their phone than to forget keys, presumably because you use your phone for so many other things whereas most keys do nothing but get you into a single building.

My problem with solution like this is the centralization. I dont want to give power over my door to any one commercial entity. I am sure people behind this project are all nice and likable. And it looks like really neat solution feature-wise. But I dont like the principle. Centralization is never good. You dont know the future of the companny, but your doors depend on it to certain degree. Plus it is a single point o…

Come on, there are probably hundreds of locksmiths in your city right now that could gain access to your front door in a matter of seconds.

Given the portability of the device, it's doubtful that lockitron even knows what it's unlocking at any given time.

Re: Lockitron: Keyless entry using your phone

#152

Post by run4yourlives »

trotsky wrote: post #21

relies on your phone working 2.4 Ghz your internet connection your power their datacenter their website software to avoid carrying a key? anyone in the area could easily ddos off your wireless more or less permanently by spamming disconnect. doesn't seem like a very good risk/reward ratio to me. whats the problem with a more traditional (read local) keyless approach? door too thick?

It doesn't disable the key, so you can still hide one under the mat. But now you know if anyone uses it.

Re: Lockitron: Keyless entry using your phone

#153

Post by catch23 »

profgubler wrote: post #111
catch23 wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So what happens when a packet is sent when you're in sleep mode? Does the device have to renegotiate the connection when waking up? What if you sold a separate device that plugged in the wall and had a constant wifi connection, then used BT4 for communicating with the lock powered by 4xAA? Then you wouldn't even need wifi on the lock. Also, why an arduino mega? Are you using that many I/O pins or is it because your c…

I don't think they are using an Arduino Mega. They are using the same processor that an Arduino uses which is the Atmel ATmega, which is a very common processor for microcontrollers.

I'm guessing you're not accustomed to the arduino parlance. Everyone knows arduino uses an atmel atmega uC, but when you say "arduino mega" it means something specific. I have around 5 different models of atmega chips at home that I use with the arduino.

In the video they said they were using a mega, and you can tell from the picture that the atmel chip is a surface mount similar to the 2560. All the arduino chips use some kind of atmega variant, but the arduino mega refers to the atmega1280 or the atmega2560. The most common arduino chip is the atmega328p.

The atmega series is fairly broad. The arduinos only use a subset of the atmega series. "mega" is probably a bit confusing, but if you say "arduino mega" it only refers to one or two specific chips -- the old "arduino mega" used the atmega1280 while the newer model uses the atmega2560.

Re: Lockitron: Keyless entry using your phone

#154

Post by jlgreco »

TeMPOraL wrote: post #144
trotsky wrote: post #21

relies on your phone working 2.4 Ghz your internet connection your power their datacenter their website software to avoid carrying a key? anyone in the area could easily ddos off your wireless more or less permanently by spamming disconnect. doesn't seem like a very good risk/reward ratio to me. whats the problem with a more traditional (read local) keyless approach? door too thick?

> relies on > (...) > their datacenter > their website software This is a thing I find increasingly bewildering/disturbing about new hacks like that. Why do we route signals around the whole world to communicate two devices that are few meters apart? Also, having to go through third party's computer infrastructure sounds like a huge waste of resources. Bluetooth, NFC or WLANs are the tools we should be using.

(I think the traditional wording of the phrase is a tad harsh, but..) I think it is a case of "When you really love your hammer, everything looks like a nail."

Re: Lockitron: Keyless entry using your phone

#155

Post by mikesun »

rogerbinns wrote: post #140
mdip wrote: post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Combine that with the assumption that the average consumer probably used a date of some significance for their 4-digit code and in the US you can guess that 0 or 1 was first, 0, 1, 2 or 3 was the third position, leaving you only to guess the second and fourth position.

There are only 24 possible combinations of a 4 digit code anyway (assuming 4 different digits). I doubt the devices do a lockout on the wrong code, so it wouldn't take that long to hack.

uh, where'd you get 24? how about 10 X 9 X 8 X 7 = 5040 combinations.

Re: Lockitron: Keyless entry using your phone

#156

Post by Groxx »

htmltablesrules wrote: post #70
pg wrote: post #10

We use Lockitron on our offices and it has saved us a lot of trouble. Empirically people are a lot less likely to forget their phone than to forget keys, presumably because you use your phone for so many other things whereas most keys do nothing but get you into a single building.

Empirically? Where is the research?

Double-check the definition of "empirical", it doesn't mean "based on The Scientific Method":

>based on, concerned with, or verifiable by observation or experience rather than theory or pure logic

Re: Lockitron: Keyless entry using your phone

#158

Post by samstave »

run4yourlives wrote: post #151
urza wrote: post #143

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My problem with solution like this is the centralization. I dont want to give power over my door to any one commercial entity. I am sure people behind this project are all nice and likable. And it looks like really neat solution feature-wise. But I dont like the principle. Centralization is never good. You dont know the future of the companny, but your doors depend on it to certain degree. Plus it is a single point o…

Come on, there are probably hundreds of locksmiths in your city right now that could gain access to your front door in a matter of seconds. Given the portability of the device, it's doubtful that lockitron even knows what it's unlocking at any given time.

There are some people even who carry lockpicks and locks and practice picking for sport and they are all over, like on /r/lockpicking and on places like HN....

I don't know who these people might be - but I know they are out there.

Re: Lockitron: Keyless entry using your phone

#160

Post by mbreese »

run4yourlives wrote: post #151
urza wrote: post #143

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My problem with solution like this is the centralization. I dont want to give power over my door to any one commercial entity. I am sure people behind this project are all nice and likable. And it looks like really neat solution feature-wise. But I dont like the principle. Centralization is never good. You dont know the future of the companny, but your doors depend on it to certain degree. Plus it is a single point o…

Come on, there are probably hundreds of locksmiths in your city right now that could gain access to your front door in a matter of seconds. Given the portability of the device, it's doubtful that lockitron even knows what it's unlocking at any given time.

While a trained locksmith could probably get past my deadbolt, a random hacker from $current_unpopular_country can't. (Note: this isn't counting non-locksmiths that can also pick a lock). So, using something like this does carry a bigger (if slight) risk. I'm not sure if I'd necessarily trust a relatively new company with controlling my deadbolt.

Then again, I also have a similar setup using an HID tag reader/arduino/relay to control access to my garage door, so it's not like I'm against the technology. It's more that I'm worried about outsourcing the security of my house.

Honestly, the threat profile to me personally is pretty low, but it's still not something I'm 100% comfortable with.

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