California DMV approves map increase in Waymo driverless operations • Hacker News Board

Re: California DMV approves map increase in Waymo driverless operations

#151

Post by Mawr » Sat, Nov 22, 2025, 10:32 AM UTC

qwerpy wrote: post #95

hintklb wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Tesla is not competition to Waymo. There are 10 other companies that are currently testing without a driver. Those are competition. Tesla so far is a gimmick of self-driving with a safety driver that takes over once in a while. That's where Waymo was more than 5 years ago.

The recent version of FSD in my Tesla is pretty amazing. Press "Start FSD" when in my driveway, and 20 minutes later it arrives at my destination and parks, without any input from me the entire time. I was skeptical too about FSD for a while but I'm starting to believe. These days I pretty much only disengage it when I'm impatient that it's being too polite. Unsupervised isn't far off!

You're describing the 99% problem—getting 99% there is relatively easy, but once you do, you find out that you have the remaining 99% of work left to do.

This illusion is partially why Musk has been promising self-driving to be available at the end of $current_year+1 for years.

It's cool your car can drive itself. Now do it again, but fall asleep at the wheel. What's that? You're not willing to? That's exactly the core of the issue—it's not sufficient for the car to be able to drive itself most of the time, it must do so safely every single time, no matter what.

Re: California DMV approves map increase in Waymo driverless operations

#152

Post by Mawr » Sat, Nov 22, 2025, 10:35 AM UTC

janalsncm wrote: post #89

I believe that in 20 years there will be cities (probably not in America) where all cars are autonomous. There will be no red lights, no parking lots, less congestion, fewer accidents.

> There will be no red lights, no parking lots, less congestion, fewer accidents.

In 20 years? Here's a 7 year old video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pqQSwQLDIK8

Also, you forgot to mention the silence, nearly zero cost infrastructure, nearly zero environmental impact, and immense population-wide health benefits—and therefore healthcare cost savings.

Re: California DMV approves map increase in Waymo driverless operations

#153

Post by Mawr » Sat, Nov 22, 2025, 10:47 AM UTC

tonypapousek wrote: post #96

Personally, I can’t wait to be killed by a cold, uncaring robot. Let’s goooo

Sounds preferable to being killed by a road raging human driver. To me. Preferences differ, I suppose.

Re: California DMV approves map increase in Waymo driverless operations

#154

Post by fragmede » Sat, Nov 22, 2025, 10:51 AM UTC

decimalenough wrote: post #87

tudelo wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't know what it is but in basically every major airport I have struggled to get an uber/lyft. I expect at minimum one cancellation...

In many cities this is solved with the "Uber rank" system, where you simply get in the first car in line, give the driver a code, and then it loads up your journey. Fast and avoids any hassles with drivers rejecting your destination.

Wait, shit, that's amazing. How did they do that? I mean, not how did they write the code to match when given the code (obviously the driver should scan the rider's QR code), but how did Uber get laws changed to allow them to do this obvious reimplementation of a taxi stand when it's technically illegal under taxi laws.

Re: California DMV approves map increase in Waymo driverless operations

#155

Post by fragmede » Sat, Nov 22, 2025, 11:07 AM UTC

davidw wrote: post #59

poszlem wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not saying this HAS to happen. But I remember when Ubers were clean, quiet, cheap too. I think you are just looking at a product before the enshittification, when they still have to pretend they care about your comfort.

I wonder what the non-subsidized price of a Waymo ride would be.

You'd have to account for the billions of dollars has Google spent since the first Darpa Grand Challenge in 2004.

Re: California DMV approves map increase in Waymo driverless operations

#156

Post by fragmede » Sat, Nov 22, 2025, 11:09 AM UTC

explodes wrote: post #60

sneak wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Uber, when it was launched, was limos only, and would come (with ETA) when cabs would not. It was expensive. The story they told is that they were unable to get a ride. That’s not enshittification, that’s simply scammers on the platform not doing their job. That won’t happen with robots. They might raise the prices, or clean the cars less frequently, but if it shows up and runs the program, it won’t ever get worse th…

In-Ride Ads coming soon to a car ride near you

coming soon? An ipad strapped to the back of the passenger seat headrest is already here for drivers that choose to do that.

Re: California DMV approves map increase in Waymo driverless operations

#157

Post by AndrewDucker » Sat, Nov 22, 2025, 1:39 PM UTC

dmix wrote: post #121

Analemma_ wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, drivers want to maximize their hourly revenue, and this is frequently at odds with the wants of passengers. For a while, VC subsidies meant Uber and Lyft could pretend they were fundamentally different somehow, but that's all over now that they're public, and the classic misaligned incentives between drivers and passengers are back in play. The cars are increasingly beat-up too, another thing we incorrectly bel…

> For a while, VC subsidies meant Uber and Lyft could pretend they were fundamentally different somehow You must have very rosy glasses because calling a tired/rude Taxi operator at 1am and not knowing whether your cab was coming in 5 or 20min was a major drag, so you always had to plan for 20min+ and sit patiently without social media to fill the void. Having 2 ubers cancel before you get a 3rd commitment, within a…

Expecting a taxi you've booked to actually pick you up is entitlement?

What kind of terrible service do you put up with for this to seem reasonable to you?

Re: California DMV approves map increase in Waymo driverless operations

#158

Post by ianmabie » Sat, Nov 22, 2025, 3:07 PM UTC

willio58 wrote: post #26

I didn’t think I’d be so pro Waymo but anecdotally I had a fantastic experience with one recently. I was at a music show very late ~1-2am in SF and walked out to grab an uber to the airbnb I was staying at. I kept getting assigned an uber, then I’d wait 10 minutes, then they’d cancel. Rinse and repeat for 30 minutes, mind you I even resorted to calling Lyfts at the same time and nothing bit. Then I say screw it and d…

Uber has over time had to relax a lot of the marketplace management practices that reduce the incidence of experiences like this. Can’t penalize drivers for cancelling / ignoring requests because it starts to erode their argument around drivers being independent contractors. So of course the quality of the product degrades to the point where now it’s going to accelerate the move away from human drivers.

Re: California DMV approves map increase in Waymo driverless operations

#159

Post by davidw » Sat, Nov 22, 2025, 4:52 PM UTC

nemothekid wrote: post #138

davidw wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wonder what the non-subsidized price of a Waymo ride would be.

As I understand it, unless the fleet size dramatically increases, the cost of a ride is completely determined by supply/demand.

How long does it take to recoup the cost of the automobile and all the tech stuff they add to it?

Re: California DMV approves map increase in Waymo driverless operations

#160

Post by dmix » Sat, Nov 22, 2025, 7:12 PM UTC

AndrewDucker wrote: post #157

dmix wrote: post #121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> For a while, VC subsidies meant Uber and Lyft could pretend they were fundamentally different somehow You must have very rosy glasses because calling a tired/rude Taxi operator at 1am and not knowing whether your cab was coming in 5 or 20min was a major drag, so you always had to plan for 20min+ and sit patiently without social media to fill the void. Having 2 ubers cancel before you get a 3rd commitment, within a…

Expecting a taxi you've booked to actually pick you up is entitlement? What kind of terrible service do you put up with for this to seem reasonable to you?

Not sure how old you are but I spent half my adult life dealing with a government regulated Taxi medallion system and the other half using Uber in multiple countries and I’d 100% take “post-VC” Uber over old taxis every single time.

FWIW they both still exist so you’re free to choose, which is the nice thing about competition.

Pre booked airport black car taxis have always been a niche within the wider system for a good reason. Uber’s fluid system is not perfect at every scenario.