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Android/Linux Dual Boot

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Re: Android/Linux Dual Boot

#151

Post by immibis »

tonyhart7 wrote: post #60
engeljohnb wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The whole selling point of Android up until now was that it allowed you to install any app you want. The point of the above comment is that Google intentionally introduced the word "sideload" to make "installing an app on your own device which Google did not curate" sound more risky and sinister than it is, and I'm inclined to agree. I "make" coffee on my keurig. If Keurig decides that making any single-serve coffe p…

"The whole selling point of Android up until now was that it allowed you to install any app you want." we can debate whether this is bad thing or good thing, it would have no ends what matters is reality, the reality is google have the right to change it.

I do not get this use of the word "reality"? The reality is Ted Bundy's currently-at-large successor has the ability to shoot me with a gun. And that fact is about as relevant as what you said.

What you're doing here is resigning from a game just because of the fact there is a game, and then being condescending to other people for trying to win the game instead, as if what you're doing is something superior. This would already be very odd behaviour if this were only Monopoly or Risk, but is downright dangerous propaganda when the game is capitalism and the future of free computing is at stake.

Re: Android/Linux Dual Boot

#152

Post by pzo »

greentea23 wrote: post #128
Scene_Cast2 wrote: post #90

My biggest worry is that it's harder and harder to find a phone with an unlockable bootloader.

Lineageos maintains a list and you can filter for devices with official bootloader unlock https://wiki.lineageos.org/devices/ . Buy only these devices to signal to these companies that this matters. Noteably OnePlus 13 and Pixel 9a, both 2025 phones, can be unlocked.

If someone want something also quite recent and cheaper in this supported list there is also motorola edge+ (2023) with good specs. I got myself refurbished with perfect condition for just 240usd.

Re: Android/Linux Dual Boot

#153

Post by asveikau »

dlcarrier wrote: post #137
ianso wrote: post #102

I think this stuff is super important, simply because there is a ton of stuff we can't do using our phones today. Think mesh networking, resilient ad-hoc application clustering, non-Internet P2P, like Freifunk but everywhere. We shouldn't have to depend on Google or any of the big tech companies for anything except the hardware. That would offer much more freedom. There are also contexts where this kind of thing coul…

Twenty years ago, if you told me that by today we'd have smart phones with eight or more cores, each outperforming an average desktop computer of the time, with capacitive OLED touch screens, on a cellular network with hundreds of megabits of bandwidth, I'd find it believable, because that's where technology was headed at the time. If you said that they'd effectively all be running either a port of OS X or a Linux di…

The open source components in your android phone are suffering from what FSF called "tivoization" a few decades ago. They can't reasonably be replaced without breaking security measures, a pretty high barrier for most users, even sometimes for advanced users. It removes the biggest benefits of being open source.

Re: Android/Linux Dual Boot

#154

Post by tonyhart7 »

immibis wrote: post #151
tonyhart7 wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"The whole selling point of Android up until now was that it allowed you to install any app you want." we can debate whether this is bad thing or good thing, it would have no ends what matters is reality, the reality is google have the right to change it.

I do not get this use of the word "reality"? The reality is Ted Bundy's currently-at-large successor has the ability to shoot me with a gun. And that fact is about as relevant as what you said. What you're doing here is resigning from a game just because of the fact there is a game, and then being condescending to other people for trying to win the game instead, as if what you're doing is something superior . This wo…

"future of free computing is at stake."

that is what AOSP are, android remain "free"

the ecosystem around android??? remain google rights and rightfully so since google fund and develop most of it

same like apple does, microsoft does, nintendo does. nothing wrong againts that

Re: Android/Linux Dual Boot

#156

Post by makeitdouble »

cbolton wrote: post #88
makeitdouble wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Would you make the same distinction on a mac when installing Photoshop from the Adobe installer vs installing KeyNote from the MacStore ?

I'm not too familiar with macOS... How normal/expected is it now to install through the App Store? As mentioned in another comment, for a Linux distribution like Debian there are highly trusted official repositories, and I think using "sideloading" for other sources would make some sense.

On macos I assume most apps are installed outside of the Store, straight from the developper's site. Which would make the Store a "sideloading" channel by that token ?

On Linux you have the default package sources, but for instance adding third party sources will still integrate the same with the system, I also never heard someone call installing Go or Java "side loading", though you're getting an installer from the site you need to run on your own. Same way for building from source.

IMHO "sideloading" would not apply to any system open enough, where adding stuff from multiple sources is expected from the start.

Re: Android/Linux Dual Boot

#157

Post by whoisthemachine »

griffzhowl wrote: post #40
24t wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> sideloading It's called installing. Language matters and I see no reason to concede this point in Google's favour.

I agree with the ethos but "banning installing" wouldn't have been correct here. There should be terminology for installing from the source of your choice which doesn't carry the marginal or sinister connotations of "sideloading" though. "Freeloading" would have been a good one but... yeah

Freestalling?

Re: Android/Linux Dual Boot

#158

Post by toastal »

charcircuit wrote: post #12
palata wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What I never get is: why not prepare to fork AOSP? I like the security model of AOSP :-).

That's already happening today. https://grapheneos.org/ But for the reason an antiquated os like postmarketos are suggested is that the project is being opportunistic thinking this is a chance they can be relevant. Additionally, the population of HN has more sentimental view on these legacy operating systems and view it as a chance to go back to the past and use software they are familiar with.

One of the other appeals of the Android ecosystem was a large selection of hardware for user-specific needs. GrapheneOS only supports Google Pixel phones which do not compare to the sorts of hardware postmarketOS or other Linux OS support.

Re: Android/Linux Dual Boot

#159

Post by oneshtein »

tonyhart7 wrote: post #145
engeljohnb wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What does that have to do with whether we should say "install" or "sideload?"

same reason like you cant sideload in ios,playstation,xbox,switch etc sideload is illegal

I have Linux installed on my own computer. Call the police.

Re: Android/Linux Dual Boot

#160

Post by seba_dos1 »

charcircuit wrote: post #147
seba_dos1 wrote: post #133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

...and if you want an Android app to actually be able to do something useful, you give it root permissions and completely bypass the permission model. The world isn't black and white. Most reasons why Android apps are being so heavily locked down don't apply to Blender. As a user, I'm not interested in Android-bis - if I were, I would just use Android after all. Nevertheless, things like Flatpak give me, the user, th…

>you give it root permissions This is not possible on a device following the Android security model. Permissioned features should always be implemented using proper security mechanisms like permissions. >don't apply to Blender You say that until the SuperRetopologyTools5000.py addon you try out infects your system. >Flatpak give me, the user, the power over application's permission Most people are not going to bother…

> This is not possible on a device following the Android security model.

Yes, that's the user experience on such devices. "This is not possible on a device following the Android security model, either bypass it or use another device".

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