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Digital ID, a new way to create and present an ID in Apple Wallet

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Re: Digital ID, a new way to create and present an ID in Apple Wallet

#151

Post by varispeed »

frankus wrote: post #119
varispeed wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most people are missing the fact that your passport in the drawer doesn't know where you are. Once everyone is mandated to carry digital ID, then possibilities to track population open up.

Isn't this just seeing a slippery slope and deciding to build a terrace[1], in that the existence of a digital ID doesn't automatically lead to mandate to carry one—any more than the existence of a physical ID card does? [1] to paraphrase one many excellent John McCarthy-isms: http://jmc.stanford.edu/general/sayings.html

physical ID doesn't report your location.

Re: Digital ID, a new way to create and present an ID in Apple Wallet

#152

Post by GardenLetter27 »

godelski wrote: post #81
pat2man wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How does this apply to a digital version of an official government ID? The government already has all this data.

At best a digital ID has an additional attack surface and is just more accessible. You normally aren't carrying your passport with you, right? So even if lower security, the chance of that information being swiped is generally lower. Phones are pretty high profile targets, this makes them more so. I do like the idea and the convenience, but I'm definitely wary of these things too. Especially in the modern tech world…

You're ignoring the benefits though - it will help adapt more services to work online and reduce bureaucracy.

Look at Germany where they outright refuse to acknowledge emails as a legal notification / correspondence so everything still gets sent as letters and fax. It's extremely slow and cumbersome.

Also it will help for security as the central service can authenticate you, instead of every little hotel and bank branch, etc. keeping a copy of your passport.

Re: Digital ID, a new way to create and present an ID in Apple Wallet

#153

Post by mathgeek »

stavros wrote: post #145
noir_lord wrote: post #142

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The fundamental dichotomy of all tools is they have multiple uses. People proposing these ID's frequently suggest positive uses and there are some . What they fail to do is consider the negative use cases and there are some (or the history of governments using tools to suppress). In that respect the two sides struggle to see each others point of view because one doesn't see the problems and the other only sees the pr…

I'm not sure about that, I definitely see the benefits, I just think that the drawbacks are worse.

While I totally get what you are saying, and feel the same way, I often remind myself that folks who take extreme views _also_ say they see the benefits but think the drawbacks are worse. Not the paragons of such views, naturally, but the majority of folks who follow them. Take single issue voters, for a mild but clear example.

Re: Digital ID, a new way to create and present an ID in Apple Wallet

#154

Post by maratc »

stavros wrote: post #147
maratc wrote: post #146

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Try faking a digital ID. Since most of that "digital ID" manifestations are just pixels on a screen , these are not a problem to fake pixel-perfect. I did some limited travel during the COVID era, including areas that did not want to recognise my country's digital vaccination certificate. I presented them with a pixel-perfect picture of their own country's digital vaccination certificate. It's easy to copy from a s…

How did you fake the cryptographic signature QR code?

I was showing a real QR code -- that was issued to a person who wasn't me. As soon as that produced a big green checkmark on anyone's QR scanner, I was in.

Re: Digital ID, a new way to create and present an ID in Apple Wallet

#155

Post by mathgeek »

perihelions wrote: post #143
throwaway290 wrote: post #130

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Also, if it's easy to check your ID, there will be more and more checks of your ID. And that's not great...

It also normalizes in the public eye the notion that conventional ID's deserve suspicion , and pushes the Overton window, in the US context, further in the direction of accepting that LEO's can and should be jailing people solely on their personal suspicions about ID authenticity. A person without an iPhone (or not utilizing it fully) does not deserve suspicion. It's not a crime to opt out of the mainstream iPhone so…

> It is not right to treat a person who is e.g. elderly, or for some other reason has "fallen" behind the digital divide, as an inferior person with fewer rights and privileges.

While it may not be moral, our entire world and society are set up to treat folks with more resources as superior people with more rights and privileges. Poorer folks fall behind the digital curve just as readily as they fall behind the professional, educational, etc. ones. Who you are born as and where that takes place is still one of the driving factors of your rights and privileges. It's certainly noble to fight that (just to be clear that I'm not arguing for digital IDs as somehow valid because the rest of the system is already unjust).

Re: Digital ID, a new way to create and present an ID in Apple Wallet

#157

Post by dawnerd »

I’m still going to keep using the digital id lane whenever I can. The gov and tsa already has my biometrics because of my passport + global entry + precheck status. Might as well use the much faster security lane.

But this offering from Apple seems like it could be a nice choice for folks with passports but no desire to get pre or global entry. (Which seriously if you have a credit card that covers it, definitely do it)

Re: Digital ID, a new way to create and present an ID in Apple Wallet

#158

Post by edot »

Klonoar wrote: post #116
0x457 wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Now that we’ve got ice walking around with an app that uses facial recognition to determine if you’re a citizen, fuck the facial recognition stuff. This tech should be out of government hands. When I was in LAX last week, facial recognition on entry was only for US citizens anyway, and for it to work they need to take a photo of you when you're leaving. I don't see how it helps ICE in any way, plus it's handled by…

> When I was in LAX last week, facial recognition on entry was only for US citizens anyway, and for it to work they need to take a photo of you when you're leaving. I've definitely avoided photos on exit and used it coming back in, so I'm not sure this is accurate.

Same here. I always refuse facial recognition when possible, but they had no problem using it on return from international travel. The systems aren’t linked (yet).

Re: Digital ID, a new way to create and present an ID in Apple Wallet

#159

Post by throwaway290 »

mathgeek wrote: post #155
perihelions wrote: post #143

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It also normalizes in the public eye the notion that conventional ID's deserve suspicion , and pushes the Overton window, in the US context, further in the direction of accepting that LEO's can and should be jailing people solely on their personal suspicions about ID authenticity. A person without an iPhone (or not utilizing it fully) does not deserve suspicion. It's not a crime to opt out of the mainstream iPhone so…

> It is not right to treat a person who is e.g. elderly, or for some other reason has "fallen" behind the digital divide, as an inferior person with fewer rights and privileges. While it may not be moral, our entire world and society are set up to treat folks with more resources as superior people with more rights and privileges. Poorer folks fall behind the digital curve just as readily as they fall behind the profe…

> While it may not be moral, our entire world and society are set up to treat folks with more resources as superior people with more rights and privileges.

I don't know about that. Ability to buy more != superiority and rights and privileges.

I know a bunch of people who disdain the ultra rich and see them as the opposite of superior if anything. And rights are the same for everyone...

Re: Digital ID, a new way to create and present an ID in Apple Wallet

#160

Post by jamal-kumar »

maratc wrote: post #154
stavros wrote: post #147

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How did you fake the cryptographic signature QR code?

I was showing a real QR code -- that was issued to a person who wasn't me. As soon as that produced a big green checkmark on anyone's QR scanner, I was in.

I know a guy who went to jail for that. He was in the news and everything. Banned from this country for life. Warned him that what he was doing was a stupid idea, he was even doing it for others who also got arrested...
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