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Study finds memory decline surge in young people

onepercentrule.substack.com

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Re: Study finds memory decline surge in young people

#151

Post by lrvick »

rpdillon wrote: post #99
lrvick wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Many parents used to drink while pregnant and put whiskey in the baby bottle to make kid shut up. We should make decisions based on research, not by emulating other badly informed parents, even if they are the majority.

The study does not point to a cause. The comment I'm responding to is drawing conclusions based on a sensationalist blog post and then wishing they could report other parents for abuse. I think the study is well done, but we can't scientifically draw the conclusions from it that the author (and folks in this thread) are drawing.

This is just one study, that echos dozens and dozens of other studies all pointing at the same things: being reachable and able to reach everything and everyone everywhere all at once is making us all sadder and less productive, and kids are getting the worst of it having been handed this tech from their parents shortly after birth.

Re: Study finds memory decline surge in young people

#152

Post by lrvick »

rpdillon wrote: post #145
lrvick wrote: post #140

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To be clear on my views. 1. I am entirely convinced minors should not have smartphones and every study supports this being a net negative. 2. I feel most adults are better off without them too, but it is an adult choice. For most I suggest deleting a frequently used app ever month until you stop seeing benefits.

The study we're discussing drew no such conclusion. There's a very disturbing pattern of studies coming out and being summarized by people with an agenda that choose to draw conclusions that are not supported by the study they're discussing. This is definitely true of social media studies, and I suspect it's true of mobile phone studies as well, although maybe you can provide a couple that you think are airtight and…

ALL studies I have seen seem to support the idea that constant connectivity leads to worse mental health outcomes on average.

To get to specific proof though, clinically in the way we could with other addictions like smoking, we would need to look at how individual applications that allow us to outsource various cognitive functions specifically impact our brains.

GPS is a well studied example. Humans that rely on GPS instead of their own brains end up with provably weaker hippocampus.

https://newatlas.com/gps-spatial-direction-ucl/48529/

It is not hard to form a hypothesis from this how letting targeted content algorithms decide what you see instead of making decisions on your own could weaken the portions of your brain that make decisions in a similar way, and all studies we have seen so far seem to support this hypothesis.

I would of course like to see more brain scan research but when all data points to the negative on something only available to humans very recently, and your own lived experience of forgoing that something has had major benefits for your personally, it becomes easy to be a strong advocate for people trying out a reduction of that something.

Re: Study finds memory decline surge in young people

#153

Post by dpark »

lrvick wrote: post #142
dpark wrote: post #124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> 100% online in a digital scaremongered world The irony of posting scaremongering about video calls being dangerous on a digital forum while claiming to be offline to avoid scaremongering. > If enough pressure is applied You cannot force the rest if your community to align with your personal viewpoints. There is no amount of “pressure” that is going to bend society to your will.

Smoking is dropping like a brick as a result of science, education, and social pressure. Just takes a while.

I was perhaps ambiguous. I am not saying societal change is not possible. I’m saying you, personally, will not change your local community as you imagine by simply telling other parents no.

Nowhere in your comment is there any indication you are running some sort of community initiative or anything else that might lead to actual change. Campaigning for a spot on the school board to advocate for banning cell phones in schools might be a useful strategy, for example. Telling parents who ask about FaceTime between friends that tablets are evil seems as effective as telling random smokers on the street that it’s going to kill them.

Re: Study finds memory decline surge in young people

#154

Post by lrvick »

watwut wrote: post #107
SoftTalker wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We managed these problems before everyone had a mobile phone.

Back them, they did called you to work and it was customary to rely message by two other people. There is no such desk anymore and they dont want to be handling your life. And if your kid needed to go home and sleep in bed, you had to take the day off instead of home office. There was price to that. Oh, and back then school did not expected parents and kids to have phones, now it does. Information about schedule chan…

If you have an unusual lifestyle choice, you simply need to communicate that to all involved. Any that do not respect it, you can seek out alternatives for.

One clinic denied me for not having a Google or Apple account, so I took my business to one that would accommodate me.

Rolling over and doing what the majority of people want you do to is not how change happens.

Re: Study finds memory decline surge in young people

#155

Post by dpark »

lrvick wrote: post #147
dpark wrote: post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is just circular arguing. > it’s not manageable to be offline all the time here > it is if you’re all offline together > but everyone doesn’t want to be offline with me > just be offline by yourself; what’s the big deal? The big deal is all the stuff called out above. My kids school, child care, my work, pizza delivery, everyone has built up infrastructure that assumes virtually always online. If it works for yo…

I have an active social life, spent years as a sysadmin, co-run two tech companies, have a family, all without a phone. This is not some crazy sci-fi lifestyle experiment I am running for the first time. I just live mostly like all industrialized humans did before 2009.

This is still not an answer to the comment chain. The real answer is “if you want to live this way, you give up a bunch of conveniences and have to deal with it.” It’s less convenient with schools, with childcare, with work, and everything else that assumes always online.

> No one gets to decide your lifestyle but you. Make them adapt.

Make them adapt is some nonsense. You’ve made multiple comments that through sheer force of will you can make other people align with your choices. You’ve posted zero evidence, or even claimed, that you have succeeded in doing this yourself.

Re: Study finds memory decline surge in young people

#156

Post by rpdillon »

lrvick wrote: post #152
rpdillon wrote: post #145

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The study we're discussing drew no such conclusion. There's a very disturbing pattern of studies coming out and being summarized by people with an agenda that choose to draw conclusions that are not supported by the study they're discussing. This is definitely true of social media studies, and I suspect it's true of mobile phone studies as well, although maybe you can provide a couple that you think are airtight and…

ALL studies I have seen seem to support the idea that constant connectivity leads to worse mental health outcomes on average. To get to specific proof though, clinically in the way we could with other addictions like smoking, we would need to look at how individual applications that allow us to outsource various cognitive functions specifically impact our brains. GPS is a well studied example. Humans that rely on GPS…

You seem to be arguing about avoiding constant connectivity. This is very different than not owning a smartphone. I think the conversation has gone off the rails, as I was critiquing your desire to impose a no smartphone lifestyle on others.

Re: Study finds memory decline surge in young people

#157

Post by ryandrake »

dpark wrote: post #116
lrvick wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you wanted to be vegan as a personal choice and everyone in your life wanted you to eat meat anyway, who cares? No one gets to decide your lifestyle but you. Make them adapt. You can get landlines (via a VOIP conversion box or otherwise), and beyond that what do you really need if you are honest?

This is just circular arguing. > it’s not manageable to be offline all the time here > it is if you’re all offline together > but everyone doesn’t want to be offline with me > just be offline by yourself; what’s the big deal? The big deal is all the stuff called out above. My kids school, child care, my work, pizza delivery, everyone has built up infrastructure that assumes virtually always online. If it works for yo…

I don't think anyone said it's trivial, but they are saying it is 1. possible, and 2. overall a positive change. But merely that has upset people in this thread.

Re: Study finds memory decline surge in young people

#158

Post by madaxe_again »

Noaidi wrote: post #62
madaxe_again wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sugars are carbohydrates. Carbohydrates are not sugars.

"A carbohydrate (/ˌkɑːrboʊˈhaɪdreɪt/) is a sugar" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carbohydrate

“Or a sugar derivative”

Great selective quoting. 10/10.

Re: Study finds memory decline surge in young people

#159

Post by joquarky »

lrvick wrote: post #140
rpdillon wrote: post #138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The purpose of my comment was to point out that just because you've found a solution that works for you does not mean it is generalizable and should be turned into a rule for the entire population.

To be clear on my views. 1. I am entirely convinced minors should not have smartphones and every study supports this being a net negative. 2. I feel most adults are better off without them too, but it is an adult choice. For most I suggest deleting a frequently used app ever month until you stop seeing benefits.

The road to hell is paved with good intentions.

Re: Study finds memory decline surge in young people

#160

Post by dpark »

ryandrake wrote: post #157
dpark wrote: post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is just circular arguing. > it’s not manageable to be offline all the time here > it is if you’re all offline together > but everyone doesn’t want to be offline with me > just be offline by yourself; what’s the big deal? The big deal is all the stuff called out above. My kids school, child care, my work, pizza delivery, everyone has built up infrastructure that assumes virtually always online. If it works for yo…

I don't think anyone said it's trivial, but they are saying it is 1. possible, and 2. overall a positive change. But merely that has upset people in this thread.

No one is actually upset by this. “oMG why are you so triggered?!”

My point was that the person I replied to ignored the entire chain to reply as if they were actually answering the question, which they were not.

I agree this is not actually impossible. Is it an overall positive change? That’s debatable.

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