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IP blocking the UK is not enough to comply with the Online Safety Act

prestonbyrne.com

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Re: IP blocking the UK is not enough to comply with the Online Safety Act

#151

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If country B doesn’t like it, block the site in question. You’re not going to extradite US site operators, period. Find another approach.

Then no country should have legal authority over companies operating in the country but based internationally. You could earn a lot of money by selling unregistered firearms, pipe bombs or drugs over the internet and sending it over the border. "If country B doesn’t like it, block the mail in question". Saying only the country of origin can regulate activity done in another country creates a legal worm-bucket with va…

> "If country B doesn’t like it, block the mail in question"

That’s actually how it works? Unless you have an extradition agreement, or military overmatch, or you are willing to expend some diplomatic leverage, you are typically not getting a citizen out of a foreign country. The government complains about this all the time with goods from SE Asia, and sometimes they seize fake designer goods and make a lot of noise about it. But the people making the knockoffs just keep on making them, don’t they?

Re: IP blocking the UK is not enough to comply with the Online Safety Act

#152
Adding this as a throwaway.

A handful of my friends work in the adult industry. This policy is an absolute failure and it's punishing websites that actually tried to be better.

Russian (etc) businesses are spinning up porn sites that have no age verification, but equally do not care about the content or any kind of laws. No worries if the UK blocks them, it's easy to spin it up with a new domain. People will find it (and Google will surface it) because people want free porn. It's whack a mole, you can't win, and the content isn't policed.

I'd love to say how this passed is beyond me, but talking to anyone with no tech literacy it makes sense to them. In practice it's just driving people to places they should be. Or VPNs.

Re: IP blocking the UK is not enough to comply with the Online Safety Act

#153

[flagged]

You're saying that the UK's porn laws are "actively attacking the sovereignty" of the US in a way that is comparable to breaking a military alliance. Do I have that right?

Further, you're implying this activity is NOT something that the US has historically and regularly done to other countries, including its allies in NATO?

Re: IP blocking the UK is not enough to comply with the Online Safety Act

#154
post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> This is clearly [...] about controlling American corporations Not exactly. On the surface, it's about kowtowing to pearl-clutching UK NGOs that are empowered by Rupert and Lachlan Murdoch's hysterical tabloids; and underneath, the real agenda is about restricting the influence of unsanctioned sites that could influence UK discourse - influence that established UK press barons (like the Murdochs, Lebedev, etc) want…

influence that established UK press barons (like the Murdochs, Lebedev, etc) want to keep very much to themselves. I could see that last century. But do they even care about influence anymore? Isn't the money all they care about now?

The Sun has cumulatively lost about £500m over the last few years. I presume there must be some other purpose for keeping it around.

Re: IP blocking the UK is not enough to comply with the Online Safety Act

#155

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If I'm operating a Web site in country A, I should not have to care about country B's laws Not defending UK's idiotic laws, but this doesn't hold. If you cannot regulate websites outside of the country of origin, then no internet regulation can hold for any subject. Openly selling stolen personal credentials or botnet usage? Piracy? Reselling personal information without disclosure? So there are effectively three o…

> no internet regulation can hold for any subject No Internet regulation can hold extraterritorially . You leave out the obvious and most important case: the country where the Web site or whatever is located enforcing its own laws. Which is actually how all law has mostly worked from day one. > Openly selling stolen personal credentials or botnet usage? Piracy? Reselling personal information without disclosure? If yo…

> Which is actually how all law has mostly worked from day one.

Internet but not for any other commerce. If you sell products to someone in the EU, you are liable to EU laws about that product category and commercial activity. The internet is the only exception, and that has caused a lot of problems.

IP block is the currently the only reasonable way to apply laws to internet based commerce. It has its flaws in accuracy; but ISPs could easily create a system to make them more reliable for IP lookup. Arguing that websites cannot be regulated outside of country of origin is an insane position to take with even the minimal level of hypothetical reasoning of what that would imply.

UKs laws are dumb, but they should be free to enforce them for websites operating in the UK. And websites should be able to leave the UK to avoid complying. This is a reasonable compromise that is already how both US and EU internet laws operate.

Re: IP blocking the UK is not enough to comply with the Online Safety Act

#156

Earlier quoted context omitted.

what happens if an IP address is not in the geo db? For example: 2606:4700::6811:

You check the country the ASN behind the IP belongs to.

ASN is even worse, honestly. If I'm behind starlinks AS then I'm American? AWS, I'm also American? Level 3? American. Colt leased line in my office in Madrid, apparently I'm English.

Re: IP blocking the UK is not enough to comply with the Online Safety Act

#157

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeh it's the sub-country data that's often bad, not the national stuff.

Not true, IP addresses are sold on, or even from time to time IP addresses are even leased (they can be transferred from RIRs, temporarily or permanently). Some times IP address ranges are registered with RIR but used in a different geography / region. Geo-IP databases are mostly accurate, emphasis on mostly.

And then there's the case of mobile roaming.

In the overwhelming majority of cases, mobile roaming traffic uses "home routing", not "local break-out". This means it is routed to the country where the user normally resides, not where they currently are. This means:

- For people visiting the UK (and potentially staying there for a long time, if on a permissive roaming plan), their IP address won't show up as UK despite long-term residence / citizenship.

- British people visiting other countries will still be subject to OSA, even when they should not be.

- People (including British people!) who buy British AirAlo SIMs may not get a British IP. AirAlo often uses SIMs registered in a different country than the one you're visiting, and the "exit node" (P-GW) may be located in a different country altogether. I suspect this last option will become quite attractive if VPN bans ever actually come into effect.

This is pretty much unfixable without major changes in how LTE roaming is conducted worldwide, and the UK isn't important enough to make that happen.

Re: IP blocking the UK is not enough to comply with the Online Safety Act

#158
post #81

You shouldn't even be expected to geoblock. If I'm operating a Web site in country A, I should not have to care about country B's laws unless I am taking specific action intended to attract users in country B in particular . That's doesn't mean just to target the whole world, either. If you don't want your citizens to access something in another country, take it up with your citizens. It was obvious from the minute t…

I don’t agree that choosing to host a website without limiting the audience is innocent. It’s a choice, and has been the default for a long time, but it means one has chosen to speak outside the borders of their own country and that comes with rules, like them or not.

If you choose to call my automated joke line running off of an answering machine in my home, do I have to follow your country's laws or my own?

Re: IP blocking the UK is not enough to comply with the Online Safety Act

#159

Why is it that every mention of the UK government I hear in the news, I think "wow, those guys are absolute scum !". They should just hand it back to the king, the democracy experiment has failed there.

That's how filter bubbles and propaganda work.

Take this case: the law was enacted two years ago by a different government, the regulator follows the law as enacted, and yet no one cares about this little nuance.

In reality, it's a decent technocratic government trying to reverse a decade of mismanagement and fighting about five hundred fires at the same time. It's OK to good.

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