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Norway reviews cybersecurity after remote-access feature found in Chinese buses

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Re: Norway reviews cybersecurity after remote-access feature found in Chinese buses

#151

Post by jojobas »

kelnos wrote: post #119
IAmBroom wrote: post #29

I work in rail safety. Two major non-Chinese train companies attempted to merge a few years ago, explicitly to build a company that could compete with China's national company, and provide safer alternatives to state-sponsored cyberhacking of Western rail. It fell down to an anti-monopoly decision by a single person in the EU ministry, who killed the proposal. Several attempts were made to streamline the merger, but…

Is there really not enough room in the global market for two smaller companies to compete (and win) against CRCC? I think this is especially not that big a deal considering the national security implications. I expect Norway would contract with a non-Chinese company for bus, rail, everything from now on due to that, regardless of whether or not they are smaller than the CRCC.

No. Not when China subsidizes its strategic exporters on so many levels.

Re: Norway reviews cybersecurity after remote-access feature found in Chinese buses

#152

Post by vintermann »

mywittyname wrote: post #123
M3L0NM4N wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Don't attribute to malice what can adequately be explained by ignorance.

If the past decade of my life has taught me anything, it's "attribute all malicious actions to malice." It's usually just a matter of direct vs. indirect malice. Meaning, are they directly benefiting from their malicious actions or are they just assholes who "do it for the lulz".

The malicious actions are just at the potential stage at the moment. Someone has the capability to mess with our buses by means of a remote software update.

Just like someone has the capability to do with virtually everything we have running software.

Re: Norway reviews cybersecurity after remote-access feature found in Chinese buses

#153

Post by areoform »

IAmBroom wrote: post #29

I work in rail safety. Two major non-Chinese train companies attempted to merge a few years ago, explicitly to build a company that could compete with China's national company, and provide safer alternatives to state-sponsored cyberhacking of Western rail. It fell down to an anti-monopoly decision by a single person in the EU ministry, who killed the proposal. Several attempts were made to streamline the merger, but…

If you are a capitalist, you should be pro-acquisition (i.e. of smaller firms) and anti-merger (for larger firms), because mergers are a form of crony capitalism that leads to reduced product quality and market dysfunction.

    First, merging firms reduce the number of products they sell, with the effects materializing one year after the M&A and accelerating over the next several years.
   
    Second, merging firms tend to  drop and add products at the periphery of their joint product portfolio.
   
    Third, the net effect is an increase in the similarity among the products that firms offer following a merger or acquisition.
from: https://www.promarket.org/2023/10/02/merged-firms-offer-less...

This finding has been consistently true since people have started measuring merger outcomes, "we find that each merger is associated with a quality decrease (increase) in markets where the merging firms had (had no) pre-merger competition with each other, and the quality change can have a U-shaped relationship with pre-merger competition intensity. Consumer gains/losses associated with quality changes, which we monetize, are substantial " – https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S01677...

It is doubtful that merging two companies would have improved the EU's capability to compete with Chinese state operators. On the other hand, lowering the capital threshold to create a new entrant would definitely improve the EU's competitive position and capabilities, https://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/TXT/PDF/?uri=cele...

Re: Norway reviews cybersecurity after remote-access feature found in Chinese buses

#154

Post by vintermann »

hopelite wrote: post #88
t-3 wrote: post #26

So... did the Chinese company put Romanian SIMs in the busses? Or was it an importer that installed those? Are there fleet management features enabled by that connectivity or are they actually secret? Also, why would they purchase busses that they thought couldn't be remotely monitored or controlled?! That seems like a very valuable feature for public transport.

To me this smells of rather basic economic/political propaganda to scare people. The collective west is clearly getting orders from high above to apply pressure on China and it may just be that this is part of it, spreading an air of concern and fear to dissuade other people who pay attention to this kind of thing in municipalities to avoid Chinese manufacturers. It's rather basic social engineering that has the ham…

I don't think it's orders as much as vibes. Some people have finely tuned senses for what they should do to be seen as one of the trustworthy ones, the ones that get it, the ones we could use in a more important job. And that trickles down: one of the things you do, is obviously to network with and boost people who look out for the same kind of political trustworthiness.

The ones at the top, assuming they're not asleep/drunk at the wheel/there at all, don't have to do much. The machine operates itself.

Re: Norway reviews cybersecurity after remote-access feature found in Chinese buses

#155

Post by samdoesnothing »

areoform wrote: post #153
IAmBroom wrote: post #29

I work in rail safety. Two major non-Chinese train companies attempted to merge a few years ago, explicitly to build a company that could compete with China's national company, and provide safer alternatives to state-sponsored cyberhacking of Western rail. It fell down to an anti-monopoly decision by a single person in the EU ministry, who killed the proposal. Several attempts were made to streamline the merger, but…

If you are a capitalist, you should be pro-acquisition (i.e. of smaller firms) and anti-merger (for larger firms), because mergers are a form of crony capitalism that leads to reduced product quality and market dysfunction. First, merging firms reduce the number of products they sell, with the effects materializing one year after the M&A and accelerating over the next several years. Second, merging firms tend to drop…

I think most capitalists aren't pro or anti acquisition, for the simple fact that they don't believe they have the right to tell two people (or two groups of people) that they aren't allowed to associate with each other.

But if you're more consequentialist, you might take it on a case-by-case basis.

Re: Norway reviews cybersecurity after remote-access feature found in Chinese buses

#156

Post by maxglute »

bpt3 wrote: post #144
maxglute wrote: post #127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Glad you listed, because that data shows apart from Sino Vietnamese almost half a century ago, PRC launched basically no wars of aggression, i.e. everything including SCS was territorial defense, i.e just. And if it was in chart form, the peace disease lull in last 30 years relative to PRC growth makes modern PRC rise the most unprescedently peaceful in modern history, borderline on absurdly serenity. Truly somehting…

Why don't you go see what the PRC's neighbors think about your "territorial defense" claims about these activities in the SCS? And what's the going rate for posting this nonsense online?

You mean the 12/14 land borders disputee who settled with PRC ceding 50%+ concessions. Probably very happy because again objectively that is magnanimous by historic standards. For SCS where PRc offers to share but retarded democratic countries can't becausen itd political suicide, even now it's really just PH being a cunt. Otherwise unsettled land borders left is India and Bhutan because bhutan border ratification is linked to India's. So the answer is most of the neighbours think PRC did them a solid. Going rate for free math lesson that PRC has equals/most borders in the world and relations with most neighbours are good is free. Combo free geopolitical lesson that it's not good with the ones with US military cooperation that generates most propaganda.

Re: Norway reviews cybersecurity after remote-access feature found in Chinese buses

#157

Post by lovich »

tony69 wrote: post #150
buellerbueller wrote: post #133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It sounds like you are describing capitalism.

He is describing how bidding for publicly funded projects fails, because the bidding process designed to avoid corruption has been poorly designed (or corrupted by lobbying) such that it effectively sidelines honest and qualified bids. I would say this is a typical outcome with well meaning bureaucrats in a democracy, not capitalism

It sounds exactly like how business works in my experience. It’s just the principle agent problem showing up in the government that same way it does in the private sphere.

I mean, if you’re at a place that uses staff aug and managing a project it’s just something you have to watch out from your vendors as table stakes. Whenever a new vendor was hired my fellow low level managers would be making bets on how long before they switched out their best guys with some fresh out of college junior that they’d give a fancy title to.

Re: Norway reviews cybersecurity after remote-access feature found in Chinese buses

#158

Post by marcosdumay »

thinkingtoilet wrote: post #147
marcosdumay wrote: post #146

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just don't buy from them. Do you think making a local monopoly in Europe will lower European prices? Who the fuck invented that logic of "those companies prices are too high, we have to let them consolidate into a monopoly so they lower their prices"?

How many companies do you think exist that make these types of machines?

At least 2 in Europe alone, apparently thanks to a single person in a markets protection agency.

Re: Norway reviews cybersecurity after remote-access feature found in Chinese buses

#159

Post by bpt3 »

maxglute wrote: post #156
bpt3 wrote: post #144

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why don't you go see what the PRC's neighbors think about your "territorial defense" claims about these activities in the SCS? And what's the going rate for posting this nonsense online?

You mean the 12/14 land borders disputee who settled with PRC ceding 50%+ concessions. Probably very happy because again objectively that is magnanimous by historic standards. For SCS where PRc offers to share but retarded democratic countries can't becausen itd political suicide, even now it's really just PH being a cunt. Otherwise unsettled land borders left is India and Bhutan because bhutan border ratification is…

No, that's not what I'm talking about, and you probably should get your information on foreign affairs from somewhere other than China Daily.
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