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Vacuum bricked after user blocks data collection – user mods it to run anyway

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Re: Vacuum bricked after user blocks data collection – user mods it to run anyway

#151

Post by autoexec »

0xffff2 wrote: post #146
LeafItAlone wrote: post #131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Does it actually make a difference? I have an old Kindle (from 2013 I think) and I opted for the ad version. I only see ads on the lock screen, which means I never really read the ads. The few times I’ve looked at them intentionally, they were books I’d never consider reading, just from the title and cover; in other words, a terrible ad for the recipient. Does the ad-free version not collect your data too?

I don't actually care if they collect my data in that particular case. There's really nothing of significance that Amazon gets from my reading habits that it Visa doesn't already get from my purchasing the book in the first place. I care if I see ads, even if I "don't read them". And when it comes to other devices, like IP security cameras I might care a lot more about whether the manufacturer has access to the devic…

> I don't actually care if they collect my data in that particular case. There's really nothing of significance that Amazon gets from my reading habits that it Visa doesn't already get from my purchasing the book in the first place.

Visa knows you bought a book. That's all they know. Amazon knows that you actually read the book (or didn't), how long it took you to read the book, how many times you read it, every date/time when you opened it, what specific pages you flip to and re-read later, etc. Maybe you consider that data to be "nothing of significance", but Amazon doesn't see it that way. They spend a lot of time and money collecting, storing, and analyzing that data and it isn't because they didn't think it's worth anything.

Re: Vacuum bricked after user blocks data collection – user mods it to run anyway

#152

Post by SoftTalker »

koyote wrote: post #95
SoftTalker wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think it’s one of the most idiotic devices anyone could own. Buy a normal vacuum cleaner for half the price, spend 10 minutes a week vacuuming your apartment, and you won’t come home and find that your cleaning robot spent the afternoon choking on a shoelace.

> Buy a normal vacuum cleaner for half the price, spend 10 minutes a week vacuuming your apartment You obviously don't have a pet or a baby. Make that 15 minutes of vacuuming AND mopping 3 times a day for a baby. Suddenly it seems very attractive to have a clean house while not having to find the time during the baby's sleep and nap time to do it manually. You could argue the same for a dishwasher: I used to only use…

I've had three babies and three dogs (fortunately not all at the same time). I've never mopped or vacuumed three times a day, I can't imagine the need for that.

Re: Vacuum bricked after user blocks data collection – user mods it to run anyway

#153

Post by godelski »

smt88 wrote: post #115
godelski wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you frame it that way you need to offer the other version. I do wonder how many people would buy non-spy versions of devices given the option. More specifically, what that differential in price would be too. At worst it would be interesting to have a price explicitly stating what our data is worth. Many people actually internalize that it's not that valuable, but doing this would make it explicit.

> I do wonder how many people would buy non-spy versions of devices given the option. Depending on the discount for the spyware version, I'd guess close to zero. The general public has become completely numb to being spied on. It's hard to get someone to give up $50 (a real cost) for something nebulous like "very slightly less of your life is known by marketing companies".

  > It's hard to get someone to give up $50 (a real cost) for something nebulous like "very slightly less of your life is known by marketing companies".
I'd gladly pay that price. I'm pretty sure there's a large number of us that would.

It's easy to make claims like yours without the real world data. To believe that things are the way they are because that's the most efficient way. Back justification is not logical. Idk about you, but I frequently make mistakes and need to redo things. I'm pretty confident it's just because I'm human and not an omniscient god.

Also, I'd suspect it might be more than $50. We didn't create a surveillance capitalist economy with trillion dollar businesses that resulted in everything including your vacuum spying on you because your data isn't valuable. Clearly it is...

The problem more is that people don't understand how that data is used and can be used. Which I don't blame anyone for that. It's abstract and honestly sounds like the stuff of tin foil hat conspiracy theorists. But at the same time, here we are. The point of ads is to manipulate you to buy things. Which isn't always bought with money. We have several multi trillion dollar companies and I'm pretty sure they don't exist for nothing

Re: Vacuum bricked after user blocks data collection – user mods it to run anyway

#154

Post by stevenicr »

I wish every product like this had giant warnings on the box, in the online listing, etc.

I bought a robot vac (after owning an early roomba for some time) - Opened it up, ready to use it - instructions said download the app to make it work.

It's back in it's box somewhere around here and never used.

Re: Vacuum bricked after user blocks data collection – user mods it to run anyway

#155

Post by koyote »

SoftTalker wrote: post #152
koyote wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Buy a normal vacuum cleaner for half the price, spend 10 minutes a week vacuuming your apartment You obviously don't have a pet or a baby. Make that 15 minutes of vacuuming AND mopping 3 times a day for a baby. Suddenly it seems very attractive to have a clean house while not having to find the time during the baby's sleep and nap time to do it manually. You could argue the same for a dishwasher: I used to only use…

I've had three babies and three dogs (fortunately not all at the same time). I've never mopped or vacuumed three times a day, I can't imagine the need for that.

Maybe our threshold for cleanliness is vastly different, or you somehow managed to produce babies don't throw half of their food on the floor after every meal (3x a day)?

But even with a magic baby and magical dogs, you mentioned only spending 10 minutes a week vacuuming. I have no idea how that is possible with babies and dogs unless your threshold for when something requires cleaning is extremely high.

Before having a robot vacuum/mop I would have to go and pick up every piece of food and wipe the floor after every meal. Sure, the whole kitchen didn't technically need a mop, but there's usually also food in other places simply through the action of cooking. We cook every meal for the baby and most meals for ourselves.

Do you just leave the food and crumbs on the floor until your weekly 10 minute vacuum? In which case, yes, the notion of a robot vacuum must feel idiotic to you. The notion of a vacuum would also feel idiotic to me in that scenario as you can surely just use a broom and a dustpan for such a small amount of cleaning.

Re: Vacuum bricked after user blocks data collection – user mods it to run anyway

#156

Post by userbinator »

goku12 wrote: post #94
userbinator wrote: post #66

First of all, it's Android Debug Bridge, which gives him full root access to the vacuum, wasn't protected by any kind of password or encryption. Good. You bought it, you own it. (I have no skin in this game --- my vacuum is as dumb as they come, and can be fixed with basic machine shop tools.)

> (I have no skin in this game --- my vacuum is as dumb as they come, and can be fixed with basic machine shop tools.) The real question is, is that still an option? If it is, then for how long? Sadly, there are several other product lines that have entirely crossed that line a while ago.

There's a reason the vintage appliance community exists, and is growing. Replacement parts are still available for my decades-old vacuum cleaner, and even if they weren't, they're basic electromechanical parts that I could make or substitute easily.

Re: Vacuum bricked after user blocks data collection – user mods it to run anyway

#157

Post by 1shooner »

bfdm wrote: post #47
1shooner wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's an exemption from Section 1201 for "Computer programs that control devices designed primarily for use by consumers for diagnosis, maintenance, or repair of the device or system".

That's news to me. Do you have a source for that I can look at? Not being snarky. I would legitimately like to read more about this.

I actually was just reading up on it yesterday because I've rooted a commercial e-ink word processor and was trying to sort out how much about the process I can legally share. The sibling post has the link to the LoC rulemakings that define the exemption categories. These exemptions are the same basis for any phone jailbreak, which makes me suspect it could be legal to publish methods as well as do it your self, but I'm still unsure.

Re: Vacuum bricked after user blocks data collection – user mods it to run anyway

#158

Post by rrruuuusssstttt »

Zigurd wrote: post #122
ethin wrote: post #62

IMO a company should lose all control over technology once you've purchased it. Doesn't matter if it's "smart" or not. If the company wants to do something like telemetry, they can buy a license from you for that data. See how they like it when the tables are flipped.

Advocating regulation against dark patterns is tantamount to summoning the antichrist. All the money will run away to Galt's Gulch, or maybe Texas.

Keep telling yourself that.

Re: Vacuum bricked after user blocks data collection – user mods it to run anyway

#159

Post by DaSHacka »

fragmede wrote: post #44
DaSHacka wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It makes more sense that there is a line of code internally that kills the machine when it can't call home (which would be far less malicious). Would it be? Whether the line of code is on the server or the device, what's the difference?

If you bring me your silverware from the kitchen, or I go into your house to take it, what's the difference? (CFAA charges)

If you sell me silverware that, unless I share my eating habits with you, automatically disintegrates, or if you break in and steal them back, what truly is the difference?

It's funny you think a vacuum automatically bricking itself if you try to prevent its connection to the mothership is at all equivalent to someone choosing to give someone silverware.

Re: Vacuum bricked after user blocks data collection – user mods it to run anyway

#160

Post by Mashimo »

fukka42 wrote: post #144
Mashimo wrote: post #139

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The cheaper ones are great, because they don't connect to an app or wifi. Mine just has a remote with a timer. Like I wrote you, mine has been going for 6 or 7 years. I'm not trying to convince you to buy one, I'm trying to explain why you have one. Because YOU said that you don't understand it. I'm trying to explain my needs. No need to shame me. Of all the household items i have, the robot vacuum I would certainly…

Which one is that? I want one without cloud and valetudo seems like a pain. Buying an 800 dollar vacuum only to risk bricking it right away is scary. I'd buy a simple one for $80 right away though.

Mine is probably not for sell any more. It's from Eufy. No camera, thus no carpet detection.
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