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Why does Swiss cheese have holes?

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Re: Why does Swiss cheese have holes?

#151

Post by Kichererbsen »

rootusrootus wrote: post #32
shevy-java wrote: post #20

Because the damn swiss folks really want to sell more cheese, without actually producing more cheese! So the proper way is to cut half the cheese out, say that holes are NECESSARY and IMPORTANT - and then sell twice as much as before. They are a genius people.

Fun fact - in Switzerland the holes are not permitted. Bonus fact - Switzerland imports more cheese than it exports.

Fun fact, but also fake news. Emmethaler cheese has holes even in Switzerland. It's the only part of that cheese that tastes any good, so why remove them?

Re: Why does Swiss cheese have holes?

#152

Post by rkomorn »

riffraff wrote: post #13
ofalkaed wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

American Swiss cheese developed from Emmental cheese.

It is odd, but people often confuse Emmenthaler and Gruyere. Even in Italian (just across the border!) it was not uncommon to hear expressions like "full of holes like groviera", and it seems in French it's the same based on the existence of this Wikipedia page https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paradoxe_du_fromage_%C3%A0_tro... Language is just strange.

I kinda love that someone who wrote that article was like "this needs a table for clarity!"

Re: Why does Swiss cheese have holes?

#153

Post by rkomorn »

kgwgk wrote: post #22
riffraff wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is odd, but people often confuse Emmenthaler and Gruyere. Even in Italian (just across the border!) it was not uncommon to hear expressions like "full of holes like groviera", and it seems in French it's the same based on the existence of this Wikipedia page https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paradoxe_du_fromage_%C3%A0_tro... Language is just strange.

They also have their own “Gruyère” - different from the Swiss one and with holes - in France: https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gruy%C3%A8re_fran%C3%A7ais They also have a cheese similar to the Gruyère from Switzerland, but with a different name (the Gruyère part dropped from the name over time): https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comt%C3%A9_(fromage)

I'm French and it apparently took more than four decades for me to TIL that we have our own Gruyère.

I always assumed we were just calling Emmental the wrong thing. Then again most of what we call Gruyère is a somewhat industrialized store-bought thing that arguably tastes like neither Emmental not Gruyère (but at least it has holes, I guess). And to boot, I'm pretty sure we call "Gruyère" some of the products that are labeled as Emmental anyway.

In retrospect, it makes sense we'd have our "own" given how finicky we are with names (of things we produce).

Edit: turns out we've also bastardized Emmental anyway.

Re: Why does Swiss cheese have holes?

#154

Post by fsckboy »

chris_va wrote: post #24

> Properly formed eyes are a mark of quality. Except when I asked someone who makes cheese in Switzerland, they told me almost the opposite (and mostly that they export the junk cheese to the US and keep the good stuff). As an aside, what are the odds this article was written by AI? It has that feel (minus random bolding and bullet points).

>that they export the junk cheese to the US and keep the good stuff

people who produce and sell stuff follow profit maximization. Colombia sells its best coffee on the export market because there it will command the highest prices. The people who live in wine growing regions (agricultural) do not have the disposable income to afford expensive wines, so they are shipped to cities. Great croissants are sold locally because they don't last long being shipped. It's not more than profit maximization.

Re: Why does Swiss cheese have holes?

#156

Post by PetitPrince »

rootusrootus wrote: post #31
chris_va wrote: post #24

> Properly formed eyes are a mark of quality. Except when I asked someone who makes cheese in Switzerland, they told me almost the opposite (and mostly that they export the junk cheese to the US and keep the good stuff). As an aside, what are the odds this article was written by AI? It has that feel (minus random bolding and bullet points).

Why on Earth would they intentionally export only their garbage cheese? Then the world will only know them for that. The holes in modern Emmental cheese are created intentionally. In Switzerland the additive used to create them is forbidden. [0] [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emmental_cheese#Natural_holes_...

Different countries have different tastes (Coca Cola has a different syrup mixture for each countries for instance). There's a YouTube video from a franco-japanese guy who interview a Japanese cheese maker. He was trained by a Swiss person (but in the US, of all places) and softly complained that Japanese palate favored more bland cheese compared to what he experienced.

So it makes sense for a Swiss cheese maker to export a more marketable cheese, which are generally less strong and younger than the local one. Just like there's an export Guinness or Kilkenny that different from one you'd get in Ireland.

Of note: cheese label are strongly protected in Europe; you cannot legally sell an AOP labelled cheese without adhering to strict guideline about the raw material (including geographic provenance) and processing.

Re: Why does Swiss cheese have holes?

#158

Post by bobthepanda »

pests wrote: post #111
bobthepanda wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The technical definition of American cheese is that. In practice, unless you are going to look specifically for it, Kraft, Velveeta et. al. are more than happy to sell you "American cheese product" which does not meet FDA standards for labeling for American cheese, and in practice a lot of people criticizing American cheese are actually criticizing cheese product, which is what is super easy to find both in American…

Unless you are buying the absolute cheapest package of cheese slices it will still be real cheese. I'm not even sure if I've ever even seen a Kraft or Valveeta sliced cheese product, only lesser no-name brands. I've been am American all my life and do not buy process cheese product as it does take like plastic, but actual American cheese is delicious on burgers and grilled cheeses and a few other select meals. What's…

The hero image for Kraft Singles on Wikipedia clearly states “Pasteurized prepared cheese product” https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Kraft_Singles.jpg

It is a sleight of hand that it says American, but it specifically does not say American cheese as a single phrase.

Re: Why does Swiss cheese have holes?

#159

Post by baxtr »

fsckboy wrote: post #154
chris_va wrote: post #24

> Properly formed eyes are a mark of quality. Except when I asked someone who makes cheese in Switzerland, they told me almost the opposite (and mostly that they export the junk cheese to the US and keep the good stuff). As an aside, what are the odds this article was written by AI? It has that feel (minus random bolding and bullet points).

> that they export the junk cheese to the US and keep the good stuff people who produce and sell stuff follow profit maximization. Colombia sells its best coffee on the export market because there it will command the highest prices. The people who live in wine growing regions (agricultural) do not have the disposable income to afford expensive wines, so they are shipped to cities. Great croissants are sold locally be…

What you are describing holds true only if the buyer values the higher quality, which is true for coffee.

But if you can send the cheap stuff and get the same price why not do that and keep the high quality items for the local market?

Southern Europeans export their tasteless tomatoes to Northern Europe because people there don’t value tasty tomatoes that much. So southern Europeans keep the good vegetables for themselves.

Re: Why does Swiss cheese have holes?

#160

Post by hansenzhang »

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #127
murukesh_s wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wondering why someone did not solve the problem already? Of all the countries in the world US is brimming with entrepreneurs who want to "solve" a consumer problem, and with modern population I assume there is enough demand on fresh/healthier products - why on earth someone wouldn't try to fix it there?

> why someone did not solve the problem already? Most Americans are fine eating stale or preserved bread. (Almost all pre-sliced supermarket bread is the latter.) You just don’t have enough people to spread the cost of baking fresh bread throughout the day outside wealthy communities. That said, a lot of European bread is also trash. There are simply some bread-loving ones where it isn’t. Similarly, there are places…

> That said, a lot of European bread is also trash.

Yes thank you for pointing this out. I've noticed even the bakeries around me (in Switzerland) aren't that great; for me the best are from the farmers markets and even still you have to be discerning for which are actually good. On the other side I've had some fantastic bread in the US from specialty bakeries.

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