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Nvidia takes $1B stake in Nokia

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Re: Nvidia takes $1B stake in Nokia

#151

Post by Tuna-Fish »

kumarvvr wrote: post #102
nrmitchi wrote: post #75

Nvidia seems to be operating more like a sovereign wealth fund than a traditional business. They have a very-in-demand product, that is not likely to last forever, and is getting their fingers in as many pies as possible with the money and influence while they have it.

As it seems now, they are into producing silicon that does massive parallel calculations, and variants on it thereof. To me, that seems to be a requirement for the computing industry for a long time. And, they seemed to have amassed enough capital to comfortably pivot to the next great thing that requires similar calculations. I think this is their super power. The next logical step would be to get into CPUs, to beco…

Yes, but their moat is not unassailable. If/when the market for massive parallel computations becomes truly competitive, the combined market cap of all companies in it will likely be smaller than what NVidia currently has. NV margins are insane, and are only possible because they have an effective monopoly.

Re: Nvidia takes $1B stake in Nokia

#152

Post by ayewo »

kumarvvr wrote: post #102
nrmitchi wrote: post #75

Nvidia seems to be operating more like a sovereign wealth fund than a traditional business. They have a very-in-demand product, that is not likely to last forever, and is getting their fingers in as many pies as possible with the money and influence while they have it.

As it seems now, they are into producing silicon that does massive parallel calculations, and variants on it thereof. To me, that seems to be a requirement for the computing industry for a long time. And, they seemed to have amassed enough capital to comfortably pivot to the next great thing that requires similar calculations. I think this is their super power. The next logical step would be to get into CPUs, to beco…

> The next logical step would be to get into CPUs, to become a fully integrated computing solutions provider.

They already tried it 5 years ago [1][2] but it was promptly blocked by regulators.

[1]: https://nvidianews.nvidia.com/news/nvidia-to-acquire-arm-for...

[2]: HN discussion https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24464807

Re: Nvidia takes $1B stake in Nokia

#153

Post by usrusr »

nrmitchi wrote: post #75

Nvidia seems to be operating more like a sovereign wealth fund than a traditional business. They have a very-in-demand product, that is not likely to last forever, and is getting their fingers in as many pies as possible with the money and influence while they have it.

Could this be a strategy to scare away overoptimistic stock buyers?

When you have a money printing machine that you don't expect to run forever (but aren't afraid of the future beyond, optimistic that you can still make money, just not that easy), as a publicly traded company you have the problem that eventually all owners who have similar expectations will have sold to more optimistic owners who expect nothing less than the money printing machine running forever. And getting even bigger while at it. When that ownership change has happened, the company does not really have any other option than to die trying. Deliberately diluting the value of the company with ownership in "definitely not a money printing machine!" before that happens could be a way to avoid that death march, a survival strategy.

Re: Nvidia takes $1B stake in Nokia

#154

Post by nicce »

nsonha wrote: post #52
chollida1 wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Microsoft did no such thing. Nokia is very directly responsible for its own cell phone failings. This line of thought really needs to die. The Nokia board hired Elop from Microsoft because they wanted to bet the company on the Microsoft phone, full stop. If you want to assign blame, then its on Nokia for wanting to pursue that strategy.

yes Nokia had years to come up with a better OS and they didn't. Even Samsung failed at this endeavor years later.

They had MeeGo (Qt/Linux). For some reason they thought that not worth it to continue. Let's take Windows!

Re: Nvidia takes $1B stake in Nokia

#155

Post by ethbr1 »

chii wrote: post #130
WastedCucumber wrote: post #126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>the relevance is that these earnings expectations are lower than when the dotcom bubble happened. [citation needed]

cant find the forward earnings chart, but PE is close proximation https://www.macrotrends.net/2577/sp-500-pe-ratio-price-to-ea... The dotcom bubble peaked at around 46, while we are currently at 30. Will it grow? Who knows. But the bubble certainly isn't as big as claimed by the grandparent comment.

PE ratio spikes are a lagging indicator though. The spikes are after recessions.

Markets collapse, investments slow/stop, orders dry up, suddenly stocks must be valued on future hypothetical orders post-recession (same company, eventually the economy will turn and someone will buy), current PE values spike as current earnings become decoupled from stock price

Re: Nvidia takes $1B stake in Nokia

#156

Post by ambicapter »

adammarples wrote: post #138
gethly wrote: post #127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They know their time is running out. CEO has been selling shares like they are going out of business the next monday, but nobody talks about it because market could wake up from the dream and crash the entire market as the AI bubble is the only thing holding up the entire USA economy(yes, not just the markets) right now. https://fintel.io/n/huang-jen-hsun

Seems like he's sold 10% ish of his shares in 2025, not really that extreme

10% seems pretty high, running out of shares to sell of a company you own over the course of a decade? Definitely seems like you're hedging against a downturn.

Re: Nvidia takes $1B stake in Nokia

#157

Post by kumarvvr »

ayewo wrote: post #152
kumarvvr wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As it seems now, they are into producing silicon that does massive parallel calculations, and variants on it thereof. To me, that seems to be a requirement for the computing industry for a long time. And, they seemed to have amassed enough capital to comfortably pivot to the next great thing that requires similar calculations. I think this is their super power. The next logical step would be to get into CPUs, to beco…

> The next logical step would be to get into CPUs, to become a fully integrated computing solutions provider. They already tried it 5 years ago [1][2] but it was promptly blocked by regulators. [1]: https://nvidianews.nvidia.com/news/nvidia-to-acquire-arm-for... [2]: HN discussion https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24464807

They were prevented from buying out ARM.

They can always license their IP and make products out of that.

Some of their systems most likely have such chips already in them.

Re: Nvidia takes $1B stake in Nokia

#158

Post by kuratkull »

mnky9800n wrote: post #139
cluckindan wrote: post #122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Stock values go up when people buying stocks expect them to go up. Stock values go down when people holding stocks expect them to go down.

Why would you hold a stock if you think it should go down? If you think the stock is valuable but in the near term should go down, why not sell and then buy in increments as it goes down?

Because stocks have a tendency to go up even when they should be going down. And when you decide that it probably isn't going down, it will go down. Timing the market isn't a reliable way of wealth generation. Long term investing is.

Re: Nvidia takes $1B stake in Nokia

#159

Post by throwaway290 »

nabla9 wrote: post #133
pavlov wrote: post #21

Nokia today is the combination of the network businesses of Nokia, Siemens, Alcatel and Lucent. They have substantial operations in North America. T-Mobile uses primarily their hardware. Nokia still operates Bell Labs which came originally from AT&T via Lucent. As the other global options for network hardware are Ericsson, Samsung and Huawei, Nokia is the closest to a “Made in USA” solution. Its HQ is in Finland but…

Nokia expanded into data center networks. Nokia sells optical data center interconnects. They also plan to provide AI services in the Edge, that's why Nvidia invested.

are you saying nvidia invests into its customer so that the customer will buy more from nvidia?

sounds totally not a bubble.

Re: Nvidia takes $1B stake in Nokia

#160

Post by donkeyboy »

lovelearning wrote: post #89
mgh2 wrote: post #59

What exactly is "AI-RAN"?

The radio access network (RAN) is all the RF part of a mobile network: towers, base stations, the signals between our phones and the towers, phone-to-satellite comms (non-terrestrial network or NTN). AI-RAN uses AI/ML for adaptive behaviors and optimizations in all these links. For example, fine-grained RF and modulation details, called the channel state information (CSI), is constantly being exchanged between a phon…

Thank you, the future is awesome!
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