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ROG Xbox Ally runs better on Linux than Windows it ships with

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Re: ROG Xbox Ally runs better on Linux than Windows it ships with

#151

Post by cortesoft »

Marsymars wrote: post #124
dijit wrote: post #115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That’s fine, then those games are not available to you. I’ll be honest, no matter how unpopular it is I’m really sorry, but those kind of solutions genuinely are the only way. I’ve said it before on HN, but we really do try everything. And not having anything leads to some of the worst experiences possible. If you genuinely have a better solution, then you are more than welcome to enter the industry and make a signif…

> That’s fine, then those games are not available to you. See, this is my problem. I have no interest in online multiplayer, so anti-cheat is purely of negative value to me. I understand the problem with cheaters, and if I did play multiplayer games, I'd want every effort taken to eliminate cheating. I'd be perfectly happy if I could uncheck the "anti-cheat and online capabilities" checkbox in the game installer (or…

A lot of games do have this feature.

Re: ROG Xbox Ally runs better on Linux than Windows it ships with

#152

Post by dijit »

ndriscoll wrote: post #117
dijit wrote: post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

kernel level anticheat is a chicken and egg problem. No game developers of seriously looking at enabling even in the cases where it is extremely easy and trivial to enable, because the additional support button isn’t considered worth it for the number of users as they might get. so when I say it’s defeatist, what I mean is all you have to do is vote with your wallet enough and the games will follow. I know this an ab…

Kernel-level DRM isn't a chicken/egg problem; it's completely at odds with people who are choosing to run an OS that obeys them instead of some random third party like Microsoft/Google/Apple on hardware they own. Voting with their wallet is precisely what the other user said they do.

I don’t really know who you’re talking to?

Your options are,

1. Buy Windows. Means you has absolutely no control.

2. Promote the development of anti-cheat on the linux, where you can not install it because you don’t like it.

No idea that you’re arguing against me, when all I’m doing is arguing for increased amount of freedom is tad silly.. no?

Re: ROG Xbox Ally runs better on Linux than Windows it ships with

#153

Post by eru »

shmerl wrote: post #145
eru wrote: post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've been using Linux since the late 1990s. Gaming has improved by leaps and bounds in the last few years, but non-gaming desktop use has been solid for ages. What little annoyances and bugs and issues kept you going back to Windows? I found Windows 10 was the first bearable Windows, that I could use without wanting to go back to Linux all the time. Not great, but bearable. I still used Windows for gaming throughout…

Try KDE Plasma Wayland session. No tearing there unless you explicitly request it.

I tried a compositor like picom and gamescope (the one the Steam Deck uses), and they help a bit with eg the modern Hitman games, but I still have trouble with eg Silksong.

I haven't tried Wayland, yet.

Re: ROG Xbox Ally runs better on Linux than Windows it ships with

#154

Post by eru »

Telaneo wrote: post #134
eru wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Valve does some important gatekeeping that has a real impact: There's (almost?) no ads and microtransactions in Steam games. If you look at mobile games or browser games, you can see that developers would put them in, if they could.

Fair point! Although that's a gate I very much like. I don't think Steam has any complete blockers to microtransactions, given that there are games that do have it, although I don't think they're as predatory about it as mobile games are. Maybe that's down to cultural differences between PC and mobile, or maybe there's more too it. Ads standing in the way of gameplay are indeed banned,[1] although there are ways arou…

Yes, not all gatekeeping is bad.

Of course, Apple and friends will try to convince you that their gatekeeping is the good kind.

Re: ROG Xbox Ally runs better on Linux than Windows it ships with

#155

Post by Uvix »

Telaneo wrote: post #66
Uvix wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Steam is doing the same thing as Microsoft, between DRM-locking everything so you don't own it, and gatekeeping what titles are actually allowed in their store. They're both locking you into their vision of the future.

DRM is optional on Steam. The dev can opt to not include it, and the default Steam DRM is trivially bypassed anyway. Valve barely does any gatekeeping that isn't caused by outside pressure, i.e. Visa and Mastercard in the latest instance, which they're atleast trying to fight back against, from what I can tell.

There's no way to identify ahead of purchasing a game whether or not it's got DRM.

Valve has been gatekeeping long before this year's Visa and Mastercard crackdowns. It's been an ongoing problem since at least 2018. They'll flunk a title at review without telling the developer what they did wrong, or even allowing them to resubmit with adjustments. I don't see any sign of them fighting.

Re: ROG Xbox Ally runs better on Linux than Windows it ships with

#156

Post by eru »

cortesoft wrote: post #150
Gigachad wrote: post #138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For most online games, especially ones without chat, playing against sufficiently good bots is better than online. You don’t have to worry about cheating, connection issues, can quit mid game without issue, etc.

That is fine if you feel that way, but I really don't. I get much more satisfaction playing against real people. It just doesn't get my competitive juices flowing in the same way when I play against bots. There is no psychological aspect when you play against bots. I know what I like.

But what if you don't know they are bots? :)

Re: ROG Xbox Ally runs better on Linux than Windows it ships with

#157

Post by Gigachad »

eru wrote: post #156
cortesoft wrote: post #150

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That is fine if you feel that way, but I really don't. I get much more satisfaction playing against real people. It just doesn't get my competitive juices flowing in the same way when I play against bots. There is no psychological aspect when you play against bots. I know what I like.

But what if you don't know they are bots? :)

Wasn’t that the case for a lot of the .io style games, where they just disguised bots as real players.

Re: ROG Xbox Ally runs better on Linux than Windows it ships with

#158

Post by krs_ »

drnick1 wrote: post #69
krs_ wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The general performance loss with the DX12 -> Vulkan translation on Linux especially with Nvidia hardware recently had the cause identified and will hopefully get solved in the near future. It has to do with descriptors and how Nvidia handles it is the general gist of it. A new Vulkan extension will be developed that more closely resembles how DX12 does things as I understand it, and then Nvidia and others can use th…

Does this mean the performance gap of Proton for games using DX12 will close? What are the concrete implications of this?

It means that at the very least the Nvidia specific performance loss of 10-20% will disappear. That is already not an issue with AMD cards as I understand it.

If it'll further increase performance beyond that remains to be seen. I suspect there will always be some amount of overhead, although at least with earlier versions of DirectX it is quite minimal already.

Re: ROG Xbox Ally runs better on Linux than Windows it ships with

#159

Post by krs_ »

estimator7292 wrote: post #129
cortesoft wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I love my Steam Deck, but it is really frustrating how many of the games i regularly play can't be played on it - Madden, EA FC, PUBG, all won't run even though the hardware is plenty to play them. The limitations of anti cheat on Linux might be insurmountable

Counter: it's the publisher's fault, not Linux. As you said, the hardware is perfectly capable, and the OS is capable, publishers just refuse to allow it without installing kernel level malware. It's EA's fault that you're required to install a damn rootkit to play a game. It's not the fault of Linux for refusing to allow this. Microsoft shouldn't allow it either, and they will likely shut it down before too much lon…

Would it be technically possible for these anti-cheat companies to make third party proprietary kernel modules I wonder, a bit like Nvidia does with their driver for example, and then require that to be installed and loaded to play? Although with the user able to make custom kernels that'd be a bit of a nightmare. Probably would have to be only supported with specific distro's kernels or something.

I agree with you and I wouldn't want to install that myself but just something I've thought about.

Re: ROG Xbox Ally runs better on Linux than Windows it ships with

#160

Post by colechristensen »

brokencode wrote: post #79
colechristensen wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The tools for owning your Linux OS are strong enough that anti-cheat is pointless because they're just broken all the time and nobody wants a linux box they can't control at all.

I think most people who buy Steam Decks don’t care whatsoever about Linux and would be perfectly fine with not having control over it as long as all their games worked.

I think Steam Decks wouldn't ever have existed without Linux enthusiasts as early adopters of Steam Decks and the few previous iterations of Steam + Linux either playing games on their own machines or on the previous iteration of a Steam Linux computer. If at any point it was all tied up with DRM and that complete loss of control required for anti-cheat it would have just died and not be seen again.

The only way it changes course is an enormous rug pull that removes most of the differentiation between PC and Console gaming and you end up with Steam as a dying product unable to compete with either other modes of PC gaming or the dominant console players. (Sadly that's basically what I expect when gaben retires)

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