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MinIO stops distributing free Docker images

github.com

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Re: MinIO stops distributing free Docker images

#151

Post by anothernewdude »

Hendrikto wrote: post #61
weli wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When you always published and built Docker images for the public you are creating an expectation, people will rely on that and will chose your software based on that expectation. You suddenly deciding that you won't be offering updated Docker images especially after a CVE and with no prior notice (except a hidden commit 4 days ago that updated the README) is approaching malicious-level actions. If they truly cared ab…

> When you always published and built Docker images for the public you are creating an expectation That expectation does not entitle anybody to anything though. > people will rely on that and will chose your software based on that expectation That is their decision. Without any contract or promise, there is no obligation to anybody. > You suddenly deciding that you won't be offering updated Docker images […] is appro…

You seem more entitled to your opinion than others.

> That is their decision. Without any contract or promise, there is no obligation to anybody.

Not everything is legally enforced. Open source is a social phenomenon. Why are you so surprised that these social rules are being enforced socially?

There are obligations... it's how society functions.

> I really don’t get this entitlement. “You are still doing unpaid work I benefit from, but you used to do more, therefore you are malicious.” is something I really cannot get behind.

I really don't get this entitlement. You expect that nobody should follow any social contracts and I'm sure are always surprised when people call you out for being asocial.

Re: MinIO stops distributing free Docker images

#152

Post by edoceo »

weli wrote: post #114
Hendrikto wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a bad analogy. We are talking about building a very simple Docker image. It is more like you went around your neighborhood and turned peoples lights on in the evening, then stopped. Sure, it’s a lost convenience, but people can easily choose to just… push the button themselves. Or pay somebody to continue doing it for them. Or get a timer. It’s really not a big deal, and there are plenty of alternatives.

I think you are missing the point of legal vs societal obligations and your analogy is equally bad. Minio's sold you this free light bulb and they also freely offered the service to upgrade it to the newest version every time a new lightbulb was released. There are many light bulb brands out there, some paid, some free, most of them also offer the service to upgrade the lightbulb automatically, even the free ones. Th…

Sounds like an opportunity for someone to fulfill their own "societal obligations" and contribute back to the community they've benefited (taken) from.

Re: MinIO stops distributing free Docker images

#153

Post by fires10 »

jamespo wrote: post #126
jphoward wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Have you not seen some of the replies at the link? For example: "You are joking ?! The commit about source only is 4 days old (9e49d5e) We are currently paying for a license while using the open source version, you already removed the oidc code from UI console and now docker images. We are not happy by this lock-in. We will discuss this internally, but you may loose a paying customer with this behavior."

Why would a paying customer use the open source version? Deployment in non-prod?

I do this frequently. To prevent vendor lock in and allow us to easily pivot if pricing gets out line. We pay to support the project and get technical support when needed. Considering how little we use technical support. It should be a good deal for the company.

Re: MinIO stops distributing free Docker images

#154

Post by rowanseymour »

some-ai-dev wrote: post #22

I wonder how many people only use Minio as a localdev S3 alternative. At least that's all we use it for really

Yeah CI tests and local dev environments for code that runs against S3 in prod. Right now sifting through the alternatives for whatever is easiest to run as a container in Github actions or docker-compose...

Re: MinIO stops distributing free Docker images

#155

Post by anothernewdude »

Ekaros wrote: post #132
imiric wrote: post #127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Without any contract or promise, there is no obligation to anybody. When a restaurant which you've been going to for years one day decides to serve you your favorite meal with a bit of poop on the side, do you not have the right to be upset about it? They're not under any obligation to serve you meals you're happy with. There was no contract or promise. The fact you're paying for their service doesn't buy you these…

Why isn't there similar expectations for users of Open source? That is be ready to take over yourself if maintainers do not want to do something anymore? Do not ask or demand anything. Do not expect anything but the code. To understand that you can not expect or be entitled to anything. And celebrate what you get just now. With this the solution becomes obvious. You select piece of technology to build on you are full…

You're more annoying than the people you complain about.

Re: MinIO stops distributing free Docker images

#156

Post by quietbritishjim »

Tepix wrote: post #12

It's an Open Source project - I don't understand what people are complaining about. Noone is entitled to receive free Docker images. I'm sure if there is enough demand, someone else who is trustworthy will step up and automate building them. What I'd like to complain about instead is the pricing page on the Min.io webpage - it doesn't list any pricing. Looking at https://cloudian.com/blog/minios-ui-removal-leaves-org…

Certainly, there are some pretty entitled people on that github issue.

But this attitude is too far the other way. Fair enough, you are under no obligation to continue providing a free service. But isn't it fair to give a bit of notice before withdrawing it? Especially after doing it so consistently for so long. Not legally required, sure, but polite.

They haven't even given notice after withdrawing it! They just waited for someone to realise and ask about it.

Bear in mind that many paid for services, on a subscription basis, technically allow the seller to change (i.e. reduce!) the service at any time. If they act in bad faith to their free tier, what should you expect about their paid tiers? You could argue you also shouldn't be using paid services that could behave that way but I think you'd struggle not to.

Re: MinIO stops distributing free Docker images

#157

Post by Klemoniono »

hansmayer wrote: post #106
Klemoniono wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Company makes Open Source. Open Source community enbraces it, helps it to become the defacto standard. Company does a rug pull because they are unable to make a proper business out of it and leaves the community hanging dry. Removing the container image build step, which was ALREADY THERE, and doing this internaly only, is the gatekeeping they are now doing. Its like 0 effort to provide these images. And yes pricing…

> Its like 0 effort to provide these images. I love it when entitled folks both expect to use someone else's work AND immediately downplay someone else's effort (no, I am not affiliated with Min.IO, just saying if you are scared of building a docker image yourself, maybe you should not downplay someone else's effort).

I'm not scared at all and could care less about building the image myself.

I'm also not 'entitled' because i'm doing this for another open source project we are now maintaining.

Just to be clear: THEY already have to maintain the docker image and it makes it less secure for EVERYONE if the community now needs to either find a new github repo/company building it for them or everyone has to build it themselves because they do not trust random companies.

There is a difference between having the official Min.IO image with a stamp of approval vs. forked repos with their version of the same image. The only thing fixing this kind of issue is a fingerprint and build caches.

They are removing the official container images because 1. this is the magic source of running your software in helm charts etc. so now you need to act 2. in some companies you are not allowed to use random container images

And you are complelty ignoring my arguments. Its not entitlement if a companies product becomes the industry standard due to Open Source and then doing a rug pull like this.

Re: MinIO stops distributing free Docker images

#158

Post by Bengalilol »

edoceo wrote: post #152
weli wrote: post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you are missing the point of legal vs societal obligations and your analogy is equally bad. Minio's sold you this free light bulb and they also freely offered the service to upgrade it to the newest version every time a new lightbulb was released. There are many light bulb brands out there, some paid, some free, most of them also offer the service to upgrade the lightbulb automatically, even the free ones. Th…

Sounds like an opportunity for someone to fulfill their own "societal obligations" and contribute back to the community they've benefited (taken) from.

All those people lurking while no one gets the idea to "ok, then I'll do the job for all of you" thing seems like the societal contract has been broken long ago.

Re: MinIO stops distributing free Docker images

#159

Post by onionisafruit »

quietbritishjim wrote: post #156
Tepix wrote: post #12

It's an Open Source project - I don't understand what people are complaining about. Noone is entitled to receive free Docker images. I'm sure if there is enough demand, someone else who is trustworthy will step up and automate building them. What I'd like to complain about instead is the pricing page on the Min.io webpage - it doesn't list any pricing. Looking at https://cloudian.com/blog/minios-ui-removal-leaves-org…

Certainly, there are some pretty entitled people on that github issue. But this attitude is too far the other way. Fair enough, you are under no obligation to continue providing a free service. But isn't it fair to give a bit of notice before withdrawing it? Especially after doing it so consistently for so long. Not legally required, sure, but polite. They haven't even given notice after withdrawing it! They just wai…

I agree with what you said, but I think “courteous” might be a better word than “fair”. Whatever word you use, I take it as a sign that unpaid use isn’t as welcome as I thought.

Re: MinIO stops distributing free Docker images

#160

Post by cduzz »

I haven't used minio in years, and when I did I only fiddled around with it, but my recollection of it is that it's about the simplest build chain imaginable. Install modern golang, build minio, get single binary.

Anyone relying on an opensource tool like minio, needs to look at:

  * organization supporting it
  * the license
  * the build chain
  * who else uses it?
  * the distribution artifact needed for production.
Once you've looked at that you can decide "is this an anchor I want to handcuff myself to and hope the anchor won't jump into the icy blue deep taking me and my dreams with it?"

If the org behind it ever decides to rugpull/elastic you, what're you gonna do? At least with something like minio, if they're still distributing the source it's trivial to build (and if you can't build it you should evaluate if you're in a position to rely on it).

Let's look at other cool open source things like SigNoz which distribute only docker artifacts (as far as I remember, anyhow) -- if they were to rugpull that people relying on it would be totally lost at sea.

This isn't to say that this isn't poor behavior on minio's part, but I feel like they've been signaling us for a while that they're looking to repay their VC patrons.

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