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Offline card payments should be possible no later than 1 July 2026

riksbank.se

151–160 of 581 posts

Re: Offline card payments should be possible no later than 1 July 2026

#151

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Natives asking why someone has cash, and not even recognizing bank notes...? It sounds so absurd that I'm certain you're exaggerating wildly. If not, you've had an outlier experience during a limited window of time in the country. Just like the parent. This isn't really representative. Add.: another poster suggested that someone had a bit of a laugh with you by saying it, which is also entirely possible. Basic joke.

I am Swedish and have lived here all my life and I have no idea what the current banknotes look like. I have literally never used them. I remember what they used to look like 20 years ago, but I know they have changed since then.

...and you would immediately know a Swedish bank note two seconds after seeing one.

Re: Offline card payments should be possible no later than 1 July 2026

#152
post #5

Some context might be useful here. I spent some time living Sweden not too long ago and Swedes practically don't use cash. It's usually not said out loud, but cash is often considered to be dirty and criminal, to the point that most don't have any at all. Digital payments are very convenient and deeply integrated, so long as you have a local ID which allows you use the local payment system Swish etc. This worked nice…

> "It's usually not said out loud, but cash is often considered to be dirty and criminal ..." Are you sure this isn't impression you've gotten from isolated reactions involving a small number of individuals, perhaps just a single individual? I can't relate to the sentiment at all, having lived here for just over three decades and experiencing the popularity shift from cash to debit card. I can, in fact, not recall a…

I'm Swedish and if someone insists on doing a transaction using cash when Swish or card is available, I'd immediately start to wonder if it's for some kind of more or less shady reason, probably tax evasion at the very least.

Re: Offline card payments should be possible no later than 1 July 2026

#153
post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What cryptocurrencies work offline without Internet access to the ledger?

All of them? As long as eventually the connection is restored and the transaction can propagate over the network.

Also, "all of them"-- as in, when you pay multiple parties offline with the same exact crypto-dollar, all of them will get paid.

Even better, when you're back online the network will run a sanity check to protect against the evils of inflation.

(Note: inflation-check fees will vary between 0 and 100% per payee.)

Re: Offline card payments should be possible no later than 1 July 2026

#154
post #5

Some context might be useful here. I spent some time living Sweden not too long ago and Swedes practically don't use cash. It's usually not said out loud, but cash is often considered to be dirty and criminal, to the point that most don't have any at all. Digital payments are very convenient and deeply integrated, so long as you have a local ID which allows you use the local payment system Swish etc. This worked nice…

We hardly use cash in New Zealand, over 85% of transactions are electronic. There’s a lot of places that don’t accept cash anymore because cash handling is annoying and risky.

That said, nobody thinks of cash as dirty, just annoying. Also our payment system has always been able to work offline, because it started rolling out in the 80s.

Re: Offline card payments should be possible no later than 1 July 2026

#155
post #5

Some context might be useful here. I spent some time living Sweden not too long ago and Swedes practically don't use cash. It's usually not said out loud, but cash is often considered to be dirty and criminal, to the point that most don't have any at all. Digital payments are very convenient and deeply integrated, so long as you have a local ID which allows you use the local payment system Swish etc. This worked nice…

> Digital payments are very convenient and deeply integrated, so long as you have a local ID which allows you use the local payment system Swish etc.

Just to reiterate how ubiquitous Swish and BankID are here: 99.9% of Swedish residents age 18-67 have BankID (8.6M users), while Swish has 8.7M private users, and 93% of those users send or receive money via Swish at least once per month.

Re: Offline card payments should be possible no later than 1 July 2026

#156

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Natives asking why someone has cash, and not even recognizing bank notes...? It sounds so absurd that I'm certain you're exaggerating wildly. If not, you've had an outlier experience during a limited window of time in the country. Just like the parent. This isn't really representative. Add.: another poster suggested that someone had a bit of a laugh with you by saying it, which is also entirely possible. Basic joke.

I'm Swedish I honestly havent seen the new banknotes (other than on images on the internet).

I carry a few in my wallet, just in case, but I could honestly not tell what color the different notes are or what portrait is on each without looking. Bad forgeries would easily trick me.

Re: Offline card payments should be possible no later than 1 July 2026

#157
post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That article does not at all make the assertion you are claiming it does: "The new law allows police to seize expensive goods even from people who are not under investigation for a crime, if they cannot prove they acquired them lawfully." I don't love the law, but having cash on its own is not grounds for seizure. Having expensive goods that you cannot explain how you managed to pay for is what they are targeting, ac…

You can put lipstick on a pig all you want, but if you reverse the burden of proof from "we have to prove your money is dirty" to "you have to prove your money is clean", that is a very clear cut case of "possessing cash is grounds for seizure" to me. By the way, have you ever wondered what the definition of "expensive goods" is? Of course, the powers that be want to make it all about the Rolexes and Lamborghinis, bu…

That's a goalpost shift.

You said: "Sweden has introduced civil asset forfeiture where the mere possession of cash can make you a suspect." in a conversation about cash in Sweden, and posted an article about how there is a law that allows police to seize goods in certain circumstance.

I pointed out that cash != luxury goods.

I already said it was a law I don't agree with. But it also isn't a law that says that police can just take cash from you according to your sources . The section that you quoted doesn't seem to support your assertion about cash either, but I need the rest of the context.

In reading the law it is allowed to seize cash under very specific circumstances, but simply possessing cash is not enough evidence to seize it.

Cash seizure ("penningbeslag") can be used in an investigation concerning independent forfeiture ("utredning om självständigt förverkande").

The initiation of an investigation and the use of "penningbeslag" are contingent on the "reason to assume that property originates from criminal activity." This implies that merely possessing cash, without any connection or suspicion of it being linked to criminal activity, would not be sufficient grounds for seizure under this law. There needs to be an antecedent suspicion that the cash is proceeds of crime.

An investigation for independent forfeiture should be initiated "if there is reason to assume that property originates from criminal activity" (2 kap. 2 §). The purpose of such an investigation is to "investigate whether the property originates from criminal activity" (2 kap. 1 §).

Therefore, the primary circumstance for cash seizure is when there is reason to believe that the cash originates from criminal activity.

> You can put lipstick on a pig all you want, but if you reverse the burden of proof from "we have to prove your money is dirty" to "you have to prove your money is clean", that is a very clear cut case of "possessing cash is grounds for seizure" to me.

Swedish law does not describe such a reversal for the initial act of seizure or investigation. As previously discussed, the law states: "En utredning om självständigt förverkande ska inledas om det finns anledning att anta att egendom härrör från brottslig verksamhet" (2 kap. 2 §). This means there must first be a "reason to assume" that the property (including cash) originates from criminal activity before an investigation is initiated and seizure measures like "penningbeslag" (cash seizure) are applied.

> Section 4 If the property has been seized and the value of what may be confiscated does not exceed one tenth of the price base amount according to Chapter 2, Sections 6 and 7 of the Social Insurance Code, a question about confiscation of the property may be examined by 1. a police officer, or 2. another employee of the Police Authority or the Security Service appointed by the respective authority.

This section, "Beslut om förverkande" (Decisions on forfeiture), discusses who can decide on the forfeiture of already seized property (beslag or penningbeslag) if its value is below a certain threshold. It pertains to the administrative decision to forfeit after the property has already been seized based on the criteria in 2 kap., not the criteria for the initial seizure itself.

Re: Offline card payments should be possible no later than 1 July 2026

#158

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are there people that like cheques? They are no longer a thing in New Zealand. It seems like something no-one would miss.

Are there people that like cheques? For no good reason, I keep a list of why I use checks (in the U.S.): - Charitable donations because charities maximize every penny, and electronic contributions eat into that - Paying the accountant - Good accountants make every penny count, and aren't interested in paying credit card overhead. - Tipping the paperboy at Christmas - Tipping the doorman at Christmas - Business licens…

In Finland, and I imagine in most of Europe in general, people just make bank transfers for most of those things. Unlike in USA you cannot just pull cash from someone's account if you know their bank account number, you need to setup SEPA Direct Debit to do that and it requires explicit authorization from the account owner. It isn't even really used much in Finland, most companies just send electronic invoices that you can setup autopay for in your bank. They aren't free for companies but the cost is negligible (likely less than the postage stamp would cost).

Re: Offline card payments should be possible no later than 1 July 2026

#159

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The card itself knows its balance and is authorised to approve transactions up to a limit fully offline. The UK already does this in some shops for low value items for NFC payments. You can tell the offline transactions because they immediately say 'approved' rather than taking a few seconds. If it turns out the card approved something 'wrongly', for example because you had previously reported the card lost to the ba…

Your card doesn't know the balance, it doesn't work like that. Offline transactions mostly died off when the limit in the UK for contactless was raised to £100. At £20/30 (the original limits) issuers/merchants risk accept some payments not being valid (and the total limit before you had to chip and pin was fairly low top). And worth saying, the merchant has some control on the terminal but mostly the decision of off…

Out of interest is this both debit and credit cards, or just debit?

Re: Offline card payments should be possible no later than 1 July 2026

#160
post #5

Some context might be useful here. I spent some time living Sweden not too long ago and Swedes practically don't use cash. It's usually not said out loud, but cash is often considered to be dirty and criminal, to the point that most don't have any at all. Digital payments are very convenient and deeply integrated, so long as you have a local ID which allows you use the local payment system Swish etc. This worked nice…

How do kids get pocket money in Sweden? I can't imagine grandparents handing over prepaid debit cards to 8 years old to go buy candy at the neighborhood store?

More or less exactly so. There is another downside to it: When money is just a piece of plastic which you touch the cash register with and get what you want, how to you learn to appreciate money? Coins and paper money is also excellent for counting, as they naturally come in different valuations.

When counting money is just arithmetics and never cash, something is missing, and it's very clear in many young kids. Money is just points in a game, suddenly you're out, and then you can't get what you want anymore.

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