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Social anxiety isn't about being liked

chrislakin.blog

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Re: Social anxiety isn't about being liked

#151
post #47

The problem with using clinical phrases to describe normal behavior is demonstrated in this post. "Social anxiety" has a specific clinical meaning that is not covered by this post. The post is actually discussing a very natural and rational nervousness that normal people have in social situations. The post is providing a way of thinking about that nervousness that can help reduce it, for the nervous person's benefit,…

"The post is ... not addressing social anxiety."

Exactly this. The article conflates normal social nervousness with an actual disorder, then provides a reframe that may help with nervousness (?) but completely misunderstands the clinical condition.

Re: Social anxiety isn't about being liked

#152

I have social anxiety and it is completely unrelated to likeableness. I do not think people would not like me, I do not try to avoid people disliking me, that's not the point at all. Quite the opposite, I'm sure I'm an interesting person and I'm confident people would like me if I could take the step. Problem is, there is something that physically prevents me from saying "Hi!" to a stranger. I literally cannot get my…

100% agree. I used to think there was some cognitive loop I could will my way out of. Then I did Keto and all the sudden it was gone.

Keto does a lot to the neurotransmitters in the brain and it clearly balances out things for me and I feel no social anxiety at all.

I’m sure cognitive tricks work for some people. They mostly had the opposite effect on me in the long term. I would encourage people to not buy into it too much

Re: Social anxiety isn't about being liked

#153
post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> And I could not think of anything. I've identified two approaches to this situation. One is to take the insult graciously, as though it's feedback: "Careful: you could put someone's eye out with that!" "Oh! Thanks for the reminder." (adjust the position of your head, as appropriate for your extremely large and dangerous nose) --- The other is to take whatever they said, and exaggerate it. This produces really good…

> Oh, could I? Well, your entire face is bad." > If they respond with another insult I seriously doubt they will. “Your entire face is bad” sounds like lashing out from a place of hurt. Typical response would probably be a confused or disgusted look followed by a change of topic. There are not a lot of people who could pull this kind of response off without coming off extremely weird or like assholes. And none of the…

> “Your entire face is bad” sounds like lashing out from a place of hurt.

Childlore isn't well documented online, but in my part of the world, "your face" was the orphan-friendly equivalent of "your mom". It is well-understood to be an extremely bad comeback in the circles I frequent: I've not known anyone to misunderstand it. Your mileage may, of course, vary.

Re: Social anxiety isn't about being liked

#154
post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Oh, could I? Well, your entire face is bad." > If they respond with another insult I seriously doubt they will. “Your entire face is bad” sounds like lashing out from a place of hurt. Typical response would probably be a confused or disgusted look followed by a change of topic. There are not a lot of people who could pull this kind of response off without coming off extremely weird or like assholes. And none of the…

> “Your entire face is bad” sounds like lashing out from a place of hurt. Childlore isn't well documented online, but in my part of the world, "your face" was the orphan-friendly equivalent of "your mom". It is well-understood to be an extremely bad comeback in the circles I frequent: I've not known anyone to misunderstand it. Your mileage may, of course, vary.

Maybe I’m just old and out of touch.

Re: Social anxiety isn't about being liked

#155
post #154

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> “Your entire face is bad” sounds like lashing out from a place of hurt. Childlore isn't well documented online, but in my part of the world, "your face" was the orphan-friendly equivalent of "your mom". It is well-understood to be an extremely bad comeback in the circles I frequent: I've not known anyone to misunderstand it. Your mileage may, of course, vary.

Maybe I’m just old and out of touch.

No, it's the children who are wrong.

Re: Social anxiety isn't about being liked

#156

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> And I could not think of anything. I've identified two approaches to this situation. One is to take the insult graciously, as though it's feedback: "Careful: you could put someone's eye out with that!" "Oh! Thanks for the reminder." (adjust the position of your head, as appropriate for your extremely large and dangerous nose) --- The other is to take whatever they said, and exaggerate it. This produces really good…

Another strategy is to tell them to fuck off.

dpark's caveat (https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=45467182) applies here as well: there's a big difference between "fuck off" and "fuck off", and someone inexperienced in such conversations probably won't hit the right tone. (Especially if they've just come out of "oh no I can't think of a comeback" and are a bit stressed.)

Re: Social anxiety isn't about being liked

#157

I have social anxiety and it is completely unrelated to likeableness. I do not think people would not like me, I do not try to avoid people disliking me, that's not the point at all. Quite the opposite, I'm sure I'm an interesting person and I'm confident people would like me if I could take the step. Problem is, there is something that physically prevents me from saying "Hi!" to a stranger. I literally cannot get my…

Maybe it's just me but this seems pretty normal? I don't see myself as having social anxiety, but I am probably more reserved than what you described.

Re: Social anxiety isn't about being liked

#158

I have social anxiety and it is completely unrelated to likeableness. I do not think people would not like me, I do not try to avoid people disliking me, that's not the point at all. Quite the opposite, I'm sure I'm an interesting person and I'm confident people would like me if I could take the step. Problem is, there is something that physically prevents me from saying "Hi!" to a stranger. I literally cannot get my…

100% agree. I used to think there was some cognitive loop I could will my way out of. Then I did Keto and all the sudden it was gone. Keto does a lot to the neurotransmitters in the brain and it clearly balances out things for me and I feel no social anxiety at all. I’m sure cognitive tricks work for some people. They mostly had the opposite effect on me in the long term. I would encourage people to not buy into it t…

Have you got any links to any peer reviewed papers discussing this about Keto?

Re: Social anxiety isn't about being liked

#159
post #80
post #45

I've been reading through the book The Courage to be Disliked recently. I'm not a big fan of the writing style of the book, but some of the ideas in the book appear in this post too. One of the concepts in the book is being comfortable with being disliked. If instead you're trying to avoid being disliked, you're effectively subject to other people's whims. When you look at it from that perspective, that's a pretty st…

IDK, in my experience not avoiding being disliked only results in a lot of people disliking me, but hasn't brought any gains, unless a rate limit on HN is a gain (they say I'm "too ideological", whatever that means)

Since you brought it up, I will put in my 2 cents, and I will try to articulate it in a constructive way, not meant as an attack at all.

Fair warning, I'm American and I realize you are European, and there are obvious cultural differences that may be at play.

The main problem I have with you is the attitude. Very black-and-white thinking, as if you seemingly just know everything, about everything, which I don't think can be true for anybody really.

I think it makes you actually appear less intelligent, although it is obvious that you are intelligent, but it makes people think things like "pshh what does this guy know, acting like he wrote the book on this subject". But lower intelligence people are masters of black-and-white thinking, and see constructive feedback as criticism, unable to use it to improve themselves, which I don't think you want to be seen as.

Of course, there are people who criticize because they're haters and get a kick out of it. Despite their hatred, their criticism may still be valid.

But most of your comments IMO just seem to be very matter-of-fact, often seemingly blind to important context/nuances that make the answer not really as simple as you make it sound. And when people ask for sources, you often do not respond. I don't think I've ever seen you admit you were wrong either.

In fact this is the biggest problem I have with people in general (not just you), this kind of dogmatism, the black and white thinking. To me it shows a lack of empathy and humility, often those people are also very quick to anger, and I think it shows a lack of critical thinking, as if you somehow have all the answers and are infallible, that there can be no other possible valid perspectives or opinions, I think this is a rampant problem on IRC/the Internet and indeed life in general.

I also notice that a lot of your comments get downvoted, which I assume may be a combination of both unpopular opinions (or that they are stated in a way people disagree with), and just haters that will always downvote certain people.

All that being said, I realize I'm not perfect either, and I have absolutely fallen trap to all these same things and more, and for anyone who I have wronged by it, I apologize.

Re: Social anxiety isn't about being liked

#160
post #45

I've been reading through the book The Courage to be Disliked recently. I'm not a big fan of the writing style of the book, but some of the ideas in the book appear in this post too. One of the concepts in the book is being comfortable with being disliked. If instead you're trying to avoid being disliked, you're effectively subject to other people's whims. When you look at it from that perspective, that's a pretty st…

> I'm not a big fan of the writing style of the book OP here. I address that in How I'd rewrite The Courage to be Disliked: https://chrislakin.blog/courage

Thanks for the link! I read through it and agree with most of your points, especially the parts about presence and separation of tasks.

I personally liked the intellectual aspect of it, though I also agree that the emotional component should be there as well.

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