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Building the heap: racking 30 petabytes of hard drives for pretraining

si.inc

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Re: Building the heap: racking 30 petabytes of hard drives for pretraining

#151

“Solve computer use” and previous work is audio conversation model. How do these go together? Is the idea to replace keyboard and mouse with spoken commands? a la Star Trek

just general research work. Once the recipes are efficient enough the modality is a smaller detail.

On the product side we're trying to orient more towards 'productive work assistant' rather than the default pull of audio models towards being an 'ai friend'.

Re: Building the heap: racking 30 petabytes of hard drives for pretraining

#152
post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

yeah we just have the 100gig link, atm that's about all the gpu clusters can pull but we'll prob expand bandwidth and storage as we scale. I guess worth noting that we do have a bunch of 4090s in the colo and it's been super helpful for e.g. calculating embeddings and such for data splits.

How did you arrive at the decision of not putting the GPU machines in the colo? Were the power costs going to be too high? Or do you just expect to need more physical access to the GPU machines vs the storage ones?

When I was working at sfcompute prior to this we saw multiple datacenters literally catch on fire bc the industry was not experienced with the power density of h100s. Our training chips just aren't a standard package in the way JBODs are.

Re: Building the heap: racking 30 petabytes of hard drives for pretraining

#154
post #142

> We kept this obsessively simple instead of using MinIO or Ceph because we didn’t need any of the features they provided; it’s much, much simpler to debug a 200-line program than to debug Ceph, and we weren’t worried about redundancy or sharding. All our drives were formatted with XFS. What do you plan to do if you start getting corruption and bitrot? The complexity of S3 comes with a lot of hard guarantees for data…

our training stack doesn't make strong assumptions about data integrity, it's chill

Re: Building the heap: racking 30 petabytes of hard drives for pretraining

#155

Aren't those netapp shelves pretty old at this point? See a lot of people recommending against them even for homelab type uses. You can get those 60 drive SuperMicro JBODs for pretty cheap now, and those aren't too old, would have been my choice. Plus, the TCO is already way under the cloud equiv. so might as well spend a little more to get something much newer and more reliable

yeah it's on the wishlist to try

Re: Building the heap: racking 30 petabytes of hard drives for pretraining

#156

My question isn't why do it yourself. A quick back of the envelope math shows AWS being much more expensive. My question is why San Francisco? It's one of the most expensive real estate markets in the US (#2 residential, #1 commercial), and electricity is expensive . $0.71/KwH peak residential rate! A jaunt down 280 to San Jose's gonna be cheaper, at the expense of. having to take that drive to get hands on. But I'm…

it's not just in sf it's across the street from our office

this has been incredibly nice for our first hardware project, if we ever expand substantially then we'd def care more about the colo costs.

Re: Building the heap: racking 30 petabytes of hard drives for pretraining

#158

HDDs - are never one time costs. Do datacenters also offer ordering and replacing HDDs?

With 30PB it's likely they will simply let capacity fall as drives fail.

They apparently have zero need for redundancy in their use case, and the failure rate won't be high enough to take out a significant percentage of their capacity.

Re: Building the heap: racking 30 petabytes of hard drives for pretraining

#159
post #147
post #127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This was not written by a network person, quite clearly. Hopefully it's just a misunderstanding, otherwise they do need someone with literally any clue about networks.

yeah misunderstanding we'll update the post-- separately it's true that we aren't network specialists and the network wrangling was prob disproportionately hard for us/ shouldn't have taken so long.

I assume your actual training is being done somewhere else? Did you try getting colocation space in the same datacentre as somewhere with the compute - it would have reduced your internet costs even further.

Re: Building the heap: racking 30 petabytes of hard drives for pretraining

#160
post #80

I wonder if they'll go with "toploaders" - like Backblaze Storage Pods - later. They have better density and faster setup, as they don't have to screw in every drive. They got used drives. I wonder if they did any testing? I've gotten used drives that were DOA, which showed up in tests - SMART tests, short and long, then writing pseudorandom data to verify capacity.

yeah we're very interested in trying toploaders, we'll do a test rack next time we expand and switch to that if it goes well. w.r.t. testing the main thing we did was try to buy a bit from each supplier a month or two ahead of time, so by the time we were doing the full build that rack was a known variable. We did find one drive lot which was super sketchy and just didn't include it in the bulk orders later. diversit…

"don't have to screw in every drive" is relative, but at least tool-less drive carriers are a thing now.

A lot of older toploaders from vendors like Dell are not tool-free. If you bought vendor drives and one fails, you RMA it and move on. However if you want to replace failed drives in the field, or want to go it alone from the start with refurbished drives... you'll be doing a lot of screwing. They're quite fragile and the plastic snaps easily. It's pretty tedious work.

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