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That Secret Service SIM farm story is bogus

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Re: That Secret Service SIM farm story is bogus

#151

Post by ynniv »

alansammarone wrote: post #103
roody15 wrote: post #98

Once a Chinese grad student explained to me a difference he noted between Chinese and American citizens. He said in China no really reads or watches 24/7 major news outlets in China. They are fully aware that all of it is propaganda and just go about their life. He said Americans seem to get really emotional over content in the press and seem to really struggle with the idea of propaganda / journalism in the news. I…

While I think I agree with most of what you're saying, I think it can be misunderstood and it can be very damaging when taken to an extreme, so I'll just leave a quote from the absolutely fantastic 20 lessons from the 20th century by Timothy Snyder: > Believe in truth. To abandon facts is to abandon freedom. If nothing is true, then no one can criticize power, because there is no basis upon which to do so. If nothing…

[flagged]

Re: That Secret Service SIM farm story is bogus

#152

Post by rjdj377dhabsn »

seydor wrote: post #109
roody15 wrote: post #98

Once a Chinese grad student explained to me a difference he noted between Chinese and American citizens. He said in China no really reads or watches 24/7 major news outlets in China. They are fully aware that all of it is propaganda and just go about their life. He said Americans seem to get really emotional over content in the press and seem to really struggle with the idea of propaganda / journalism in the news. I…

I think the main difference is, in liberal countries people depend on the media to manufacture consensuses, while China does not need anyone but the leader to create them. No society can survive without a certain degree of consensus

Don't the results of elections that are generally perceived to be fair give leaders a mandate that is accepted by most to do what they campaigned on?

Re: That Secret Service SIM farm story is bogus

#153

Post by micromacrofoot »

r3trohack3r wrote: post #132
seydor wrote: post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the main difference is, in liberal countries people depend on the media to manufacture consensuses, while China does not need anyone but the leader to create them. No society can survive without a certain degree of consensus

I believe it’s a mistake for liberal countries to rely on centralized content distribution platforms for consensus - that’s how you end up with consensus being for sale.

that's capitalism baby, look at sinclair broadcast group for example

Re: That Secret Service SIM farm story is bogus

#155

Post by runlaszlorun »

ynniv wrote: post #151
alansammarone wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While I think I agree with most of what you're saying, I think it can be misunderstood and it can be very damaging when taken to an extreme, so I'll just leave a quote from the absolutely fantastic 20 lessons from the 20th century by Timothy Snyder: > Believe in truth. To abandon facts is to abandon freedom. If nothing is true, then no one can criticize power, because there is no basis upon which to do so. If nothing…

[flagged]

Unless you get your eyes open to Intuitionist Math and then you realize math isn't "true".

Then again... where in the trillion or so parameters of any LLM is The Law of the Excluded Middle that classical math requires to be "true".

Even more comical is that there are certainly embeddings in there _about_ an excluded middle. With thousands of dimensions and billions of values in each one.

Lord help us all... Lol

Re: That Secret Service SIM farm story is bogus

#156

Post by suddenlybananas »

alansammarone wrote: post #103
roody15 wrote: post #98

Once a Chinese grad student explained to me a difference he noted between Chinese and American citizens. He said in China no really reads or watches 24/7 major news outlets in China. They are fully aware that all of it is propaganda and just go about their life. He said Americans seem to get really emotional over content in the press and seem to really struggle with the idea of propaganda / journalism in the news. I…

While I think I agree with most of what you're saying, I think it can be misunderstood and it can be very damaging when taken to an extreme, so I'll just leave a quote from the absolutely fantastic 20 lessons from the 20th century by Timothy Snyder: > Believe in truth. To abandon facts is to abandon freedom. If nothing is true, then no one can criticize power, because there is no basis upon which to do so. If nothing…

Well, Snyder himself is a bit of a propagandist with his ridiculous double genocide theory.

Here's a longer discussion[1] with examples of how he is an ideologue. (I would have liked to post a reply to the people responding to me but alas, I cannot.)

[1] https://www.reddit.com/r/AskHistorians/comments/1brdk1l/comm...

Re: That Secret Service SIM farm story is bogus

#157

Post by Hikikomori »

pookha wrote: post #108
roody15 wrote: post #98

Once a Chinese grad student explained to me a difference he noted between Chinese and American citizens. He said in China no really reads or watches 24/7 major news outlets in China. They are fully aware that all of it is propaganda and just go about their life. He said Americans seem to get really emotional over content in the press and seem to really struggle with the idea of propaganda / journalism in the news. I…

What your Chinese friend isn't saying is that all those Substack writers in the US would be disappeared into Chinese gulag's. The US has a strong freedom of speech clause baked into its core governance system...When I was fifteen I'd be subscribed to five different punk zines and would be creating mix-tapes from 10 different sources (and much of it wildly offensive and political).

Does it matter if you can speak if the system is designed do that you can't be heard?

Re: That Secret Service SIM farm story is bogus

#158

Post by moron4hire »

roody15 wrote: post #98

Once a Chinese grad student explained to me a difference he noted between Chinese and American citizens. He said in China no really reads or watches 24/7 major news outlets in China. They are fully aware that all of it is propaganda and just go about their life. He said Americans seem to get really emotional over content in the press and seem to really struggle with the idea of propaganda / journalism in the news. I…

This sounds like "nobody drives in NYC because the traffic is so bad".

Re: That Secret Service SIM farm story is bogus

#159

Post by herval »

stetrain wrote: post #141
roody15 wrote: post #98

Once a Chinese grad student explained to me a difference he noted between Chinese and American citizens. He said in China no really reads or watches 24/7 major news outlets in China. They are fully aware that all of it is propaganda and just go about their life. He said Americans seem to get really emotional over content in the press and seem to really struggle with the idea of propaganda / journalism in the news. I…

I think treating the government as a singular entity pushing a narrative is missing a bit. There is no singular government moving in lock-step, I think we've seen a lot of those seams showing recently. There are factions, supported by various wealthy powerful interests. Those factions include people in government but also people funding or controlling media. The owner and CEO of a major social network was literally g…

This is true in a _well functioning democratic government_ - by design: as long as there are differences, a single actor cannot take over.

Understanding that the media is owned by powerful people, and people have agendas, is a key point to media literacy that should be taught at schools. It doesn't mean media should be ignored, nor that they always aim to manipulate (with some exceptions). It's, again, healthy if you understand it as it is (a viewpoint, espoused by people with a specific worldview). Interpreting the news require critical thinking. Most people never develop critical thinking.

Re: That Secret Service SIM farm story is bogus

#160

Post by 2OEH8eoCRo0 »

Everyone is debunking a claim that wasn't made.

> The Secret Service dismantled a network of more than 300 SIM servers and 100,000 SIM cards in the New York-area that were capable of crippling telecom systems and carrying out anonymous telephonic attacks, disrupting the threat before world leaders arrived for the UN General Assembly

> that were capable of

They didn't say this is what it was used for but that it was capable of doing so. Are we sure that's false? It sounds correct that the equipment is capable of such things.

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