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A board member's perspective of the RubyGems controversy

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Re: A board member's perspective of the RubyGems controversy

#151

Post by scuff3d »

rezonant wrote: post #112
scuff3d wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

2025 has been wild but DHH outing himself as a crazy racist was definitely not something I was expecting...

Oh this sort of thing is far from new for DHH, there's long been a desire to oust him from Rails or fork it, but it's never quite came to fruition, and unless Shopify were to back it, it is unlikely it would survive :-\

I guess I wasn't aware since I'm not really involved in the Ruby community. I always knew he was kind of an oddball from a few of his posts I've seen and podcasts I've heard him on. Never would have guessed it was this bad.

Until now I thought his craziest idea was that dynamic typing is better than static typing. (Just a joke, not trying to start a war over dynamic vs static lol)

Re: A board member's perspective of the RubyGems controversy

#152

Post by picadi »

nightpool wrote: post #20
picadi wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

i read the article, but didn't see anything damning about it. how big of a staff do you think a tiny 501c3 like RubyCentral is? RC shepherds a pretty small community around a niche DSL with a shoestring non-profit budget that mostly goes towards running conferences.. you can see their financial reports here https://projects.propublica.org/nonprofits/organizations/300... expectations around "strategic planning" and "m…

"These randos" are our friends and fellow contributors. Probably everybody in the Ruby community has worked with theme in one capacity or another. The article provides no reason why they should have had their contribution permissions revoked. Just because you think of Ruby as a "niche DSL" and the people maintaining its core infrastructure as "randos" doesn't mean the rest of us do.

just because someone is a nice community member doesn't mean they deserve rewrite-the-commit history admin level access to rubygems and bundler. they can be great committers even without the ego boost of knowing you hold the keys to get a ton of companies hacked without interference.

also, if you step back, Ruby's problem is it consists of a fading community of millenials and Gen Xers who first came to Rails when it was the best/coolest option. however with the majority of builders now turning to JS for web, Rust (and Go) for systems, and Python for ML, it doesn't have a use case anymore that can drive a community or any hope for growth in the future. so a "niche DSL" for legacy webapps and plugin systems is what's left IMO, but i'm sorry for being super frank about it

languages like this with a shrinking community and loose security policies pose around the centralized package management system pose high security risks to its users.

Re: A board member's perspective of the RubyGems controversy

#153

Post by rramon »

____mr____ wrote: post #134
rramon wrote: post #127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Tekin, what makes a Turk less white than a Greek or Spaniard? If it's cultural (religion, music/sports related subcultures and codes) then it's chosen. Nobody can force you into a subculture in the West. As soon as you turn 18 you can essentially do what you want, most likely even way before that. You can chose your subculture, how you dress, style your hair, talk and are read by the mainstream society. Actual racist…

Not really, racists often include ethnic features such as hair texture or even nose shape within their criteria for racial exclusion. While in certain cultural contexts Turks may be read as white, within Europe there is a history of excluding them from whiteness and presenting them as a threat to European culture, mostly due to Islamophobia

Ethnic features = things you can nothing for, same category as skin color.

I was talking about the culture you chose and the stereotypes that go along with it. Stereotypes override ethnic features unless you actually deal with real racists.

DHH might not be street smart enough (like most people in tech) to see through those stereotypes on the streets of London.

Re: A board member's perspective of the RubyGems controversy

#154

Post by rezonant »

scuff3d wrote: post #151
rezonant wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Oh this sort of thing is far from new for DHH, there's long been a desire to oust him from Rails or fork it, but it's never quite came to fruition, and unless Shopify were to back it, it is unlikely it would survive :-\

I guess I wasn't aware since I'm not really involved in the Ruby community. I always knew he was kind of an oddball from a few of his posts I've seen and podcasts I've heard him on. Never would have guessed it was this bad. Until now I thought his craziest idea was that dynamic typing is better than static typing. (Just a joke, not trying to start a war over dynamic vs static lol)

To be fair it is an objectively crazy idea that dynamic typing is better than static typing (I'll start the war, it's fine).

Re: A board member's perspective of the RubyGems controversy

#155

Post by em-bee »

simianparrot wrote: post #147
em-bee wrote: post #145

Earlier quoted context omitted.

no it isn't because everyone has a different idea what limited, controlled immigration means. for some 20% is ok, for some 10% is to much. and for some only those who can integrate to 100% and become invisible is ok. practically speaking, for most people controlled immigration means: only allow the people that we like, and don't allow any of the people that we don't like.

We will never solve the scale of what's acceptable or not. That will always require dialogue and will change over time with the economic state of a country and many other factors, including culture. However this argument is usually used to imply "there should be no limits", and that's obviously not practical nor ethical for anyone involved.

yes, the limits are economical. not cultural. you can't control the effect on culture by limiting immigration. economics is a different issue. the problem of course is that these issues get mixed, and people use economics as a reason when culture is their problem. and they are blaming their own economic situation on to much immigration when often that is simply not true.

germany has 200.000 open positions in IT right now. what would happen if we invited 200.000 experienced IT people from india? half the people without a job would complain that the indians are taking away their jobs. and lots of people would rant about how all these indians change our culture.

and what about the civil war in syria that produced 5 million refugees leaving the country? or ukraine, another 5.7 million refugees?

do you want to reject them just because you feel they threaten your culture?

since you claim that not having a limit is not ethical, let me quote the german chancellor merkel at the time: "The fundamental right to asylum for the politically persecuted knows no upper limit; that also goes for refugees who come to us from the hell of a civil war."

when merkel said "everyone is welcome" this was literally the first time in my life that i was proud of germany. and you should know that in germany being proud of germany is a politically very sensitive statement usually associated with extreme-right groups.

so when it comes to refugees there can't be an upper limit.and beyond that, the limit depends on the economic situation. if we need the workers, the limit goes up. it has to. culture doesn't factor into it at all. you can't have it both ways.

Re: A board member's perspective of the RubyGems controversy

#156

Post by simianparrot »

em-bee wrote: post #155
simianparrot wrote: post #147

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We will never solve the scale of what's acceptable or not. That will always require dialogue and will change over time with the economic state of a country and many other factors, including culture. However this argument is usually used to imply "there should be no limits", and that's obviously not practical nor ethical for anyone involved.

yes, the limits are economical. not cultural. you can't control the effect on culture by limiting immigration. economics is a different issue. the problem of course is that these issues get mixed, and people use economics as a reason when culture is their problem. and they are blaming their own economic situation on to much immigration when often that is simply not true. germany has 200.000 open positions in IT right…

And look at Germany now. I have friends and family there. Merkel’s utopian naïveté has certainly not benefited Germany at this point. It went way too far.

I can’t believe people are like this. But it explains why Europe is more and more split on this topic: It’s two irreconcilable worldviews and one of them requires ignoring observed reality.

Re: A board member's perspective of the RubyGems controversy

#157

Post by schainks »

em-bee wrote: post #137
forgingahead wrote: post #123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Tekin's conclusion: "it will send a clear message to the wider Ruby community (and those who may be considering joining it) that the majority does not stand with DHH and his toxic views." He is going to be ultra surprised to learn what the majority thinks and how it's not what he thinks it is.

what does the majority think then according to you?

Additional context — DHH's latest blog post: https://world.hey.com/dhh/as-i-remember-london-e7d38e64

Using your personal brand to espouse the values of ethnonationalism fundamentally serves the capital class wishing to divide and exploit social order among those who labor. This is so rich, coming from the guy who literally created a tool that increases the value of labor.

So, if I had to guess, the smart, critical thinkers in the _global_ Ruby community might find this whole situation reeks.

If I were an immigrant to the UK and a Rails developer, and DHH is getting re-platformed while saying crazy stuff like this, I would think twice about my career choices going forward — Or, push the Ruby community not to stand with a garbage attitude like this, even if from a BDFL-type personality. I _invested_ my life into promoting the use of your tool, while you disparage me based on skin color and country of origin for the sake of some 'ye olde country' vibefest?

Does DHH even know where his principles lie?

Re: A board member's perspective of the RubyGems controversy

#158

Post by berkanunal »

rramon wrote: post #127
fwip wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thanks - that was helpful indeed. From there, I also found the linked post by Tekin Süleyman ( https://tekin.co.uk/2025/09/the-ruby-community-has-a-dhh-pro... ) to be informative.

Tekin, what makes a Turk less white than a Greek or Spaniard? If it's cultural (religion, music/sports related subcultures and codes) then it's chosen. Nobody can force you into a subculture in the West. As soon as you turn 18 you can essentially do what you want, most likely even way before that. You can chose your subculture, how you dress, style your hair, talk and are read by the mainstream society. Actual racist…

What exactly is your point? Is abandoning your religion and what music you listen a requirement of integration?

This is how your point reads like: Just cosplay as a white european christian, and if you still experience racism... well fuck those racists.

Re: A board member's perspective of the RubyGems controversy

#159

Post by em-bee »

simianparrot wrote: post #156
em-bee wrote: post #155

Earlier quoted context omitted.

yes, the limits are economical. not cultural. you can't control the effect on culture by limiting immigration. economics is a different issue. the problem of course is that these issues get mixed, and people use economics as a reason when culture is their problem. and they are blaming their own economic situation on to much immigration when often that is simply not true. germany has 200.000 open positions in IT right…

And look at Germany now. I have friends and family there. Merkel’s utopian naïveté has certainly not benefited Germany at this point. It went way too far. I can’t believe people are like this. But it explains why Europe is more and more split on this topic: It’s two irreconcilable worldviews and one of them requires ignoring observed reality.

you are completely missing the point. what exactly should germany have done? let those people suffer? stick them in crowded refugee camps?

you do not get to turn a generous humanitarian aid gesture into blaming germany for being dumb to let all these people in.

this is not ignoring observed reality. observed reality is a consequence of people not being welcoming enough. of not being supporting and considerate of the foreign culture and not doing enough to befriend these people. as i linked in my other post, i wrote about this before: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=44746099 we are not letting these people integrate in a way that allows them to keep some of their culture while giving them an opportunity to learn about our culture.

yes, the current reality may be rough. but those are growing pains. and they are consequences of war, and not consequences of allowing to many people to enter the country. by sharing the consequences of these wars germany becomes an ally to the victims, and that is a good thing. rejecting refugees would have turned germany into a villain and an ally of the perpetrators. i'd be ashamed if that happened.

Re: A board member's perspective of the RubyGems controversy

#160

Post by scuff3d »

rezonant wrote: post #154
scuff3d wrote: post #151

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I guess I wasn't aware since I'm not really involved in the Ruby community. I always knew he was kind of an oddball from a few of his posts I've seen and podcasts I've heard him on. Never would have guessed it was this bad. Until now I thought his craziest idea was that dynamic typing is better than static typing. (Just a joke, not trying to start a war over dynamic vs static lol)

To be fair it is an objectively crazy idea that dynamic typing is better than static typing (I'll start the war, it's fine).

Lol. I assumed a Ruby person would prefer dynamic typing and I didn't want to insult you.

But yeah I agree. Given the opportunity I'm almost always going to go for a statically typed language.

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