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Top UN legal investigators conclude Israel is guilty of genocide in Gaza

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Re: Top UN legal investigators conclude Israel is guilty of genocide in Gaza

#151

Post by [deleted] »

breppp wrote: post #119
ncallaway wrote: post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's why the mens rea element is also an element of the crime. You've completely skipped over that part of the report and the conclusion.

Which is completely based on trying to analyze the reactions of politicians to an attack that included mass killings of civilians, intense brutality and mass rape. surprise surprise these are filled with anger and do not read like a swedish minister reaction to migrant birds. These are not different than the USA post 9/11. Even if you take these statements, and add everything that happened on the ground for the last…

[deleted]

Re: Top UN legal investigators conclude Israel is guilty of genocide in Gaza

#152

Post by tick_tock_tick »

leonixyz wrote: post #85

Hopefully we are at the beginning of a change, but I doubt this will come only from the UN. The UN is the only international democratic institution that - even with its many imperfections - prevents the world to fall into complete anarchy. It's quite telling that it gets ignored since so many years by the country that elevates itself as the world defender of democracy, the US. The UN has voted for decades for ending…

> The UN is the only international democratic institution that - even with its many imperfections - prevents the world to fall into complete anarchy. It's quite telling that it gets ignored since so many years by the country that elevates itself as the world defender of democracy, the US.

It's not been ignored the purpose of the UN is for largely irrelevant countries to petition the world powers to maybe consider doing something. The UN has been so successful because it has no real power over players like the USA.

> The UN has voted for decades for ending the embargo towards Cuba.

Ok? I mean the purpose of the UN is for people to suggest stuff to players like the USA not for the USA to actually do what the UN votes for.

Re: Top UN legal investigators conclude Israel is guilty of genocide in Gaza

#153

Post by dotancohen »

jcranmer wrote: post #136
dotancohen wrote: post #126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

I'd have to check, but I think Israel has killed more children in the past two years than Hamas killed Israelis on October 7. Israel has killed something like 30-40x the number of civilians in the same timeframe. Hamas is a bunch of evil people. That doesn't justify descending to their level of butchery to exterminate them, especially not when you are so much more efficient at that butchery.

You don't have to check, more Gazan children have died than Israeli children. So by your argument, had Hamas killed more Israeli children then there wouldn't be a problem? I can think of no other reason why you made that argument.

  > Israel has killed something like 30-40x the number of civilians in the same timeframe.
You might notice that Hamas was in Israel for less than 1/40 the time that this war has been going on. So per time period, Hamas killed _more_ children than Israel, given the chance. Who do you accuse of genocide now? They've just been denied the chance.

Re: Top UN legal investigators conclude Israel is guilty of genocide in Gaza

#154

Post by actionfromafar »

shadowgovt wrote: post #107
pojzon wrote: post #91

[flagged]

Not so much "lies" as "a people having a genocide committed against them does not make them constitutionally incapable of ever committing one themselves in the future." For several reasons, including that it was different people (only 7% of Holocaust survivors are still alive) and that 'nation,' as a conceptual construct, still carries the same weaknesses that it did when a relatively few voices in Germany used that…

In fact, I think trauma often makes the victims more likely to perpetuate violence.

Re: Top UN legal investigators conclude Israel is guilty of genocide in Gaza

#155

Post by tome »

kergonath wrote: post #145
breppp wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

> And let's find a war where clauses I, II, and III do not apply When these clauses apply against civilian populations, they are war crimes or crimes against Humanity, or both.

Can you name a war in which members of a group weren't killed, or serious bodily or mental harm wasn't caused to a members of a group?

Re: Top UN legal investigators conclude Israel is guilty of genocide in Gaza

#157

Post by bsaul »

random9749832 wrote: post #148
dotancohen wrote: post #123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

Intentionally killing children will never be justified, everything else serves as a decoy from acknowledging this simple fact.

Nobody in israel's army is aiming at children except maybe for some people turning crazy because of the war, which happens in every war.

Pretending otherwise is just blatant propaganda.

Re: Top UN legal investigators conclude Israel is guilty of genocide in Gaza

#158

Post by tguvot »

xg15 wrote: post #131
tguvot wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

UNRWA schoolbooks for you: https://www.impact-se.org/wp-content/uploads/UNRWA-Education... and first UN general assembly resolution condemning hamas attack is the one from the past week that speaks about recognition of palestinian state. unless you can find different one

I can't refute all their findings, but it's still worth looking at the board of that org: https://www.impact-se.org/about-us/impact-se-board-members/ For an organization ostensibly concerned with education to violence everywhere, that's a LOT of board members with direct connections to Israel. I also think it's common sense that if an occupying force deliberately ensures your living conditions become ever worse, shoo…

"i can't refute the facts so i will have to do character assassination".

(i'll remind that those are books that are taught by UN agency)

the atlantic article from 1961 about unrwa camps showing that they were taught back than liberation of entire area by force and destruction of israel https://cdn.theatlantic.com/media/archives/1961/10/208-4/132...

it's almost like if population is educated for violence for 50 years, it will behave violently and it will result in counter action from "occupying force"

on the other side, Israeli population is been subjected to palestinian violence for extended period. Pretty much everybody was either target of it or lost somebody to it.

Lets see what do we have in Israeli schoolbooks: https://www.impact-se.org/wp-content/uploads/Arabs-and-Pales...

Re: Top UN legal investigators conclude Israel is guilty of genocide in Gaza

#159

Post by actionfromafar »

bsaul wrote: post #150
dotancohen wrote: post #123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

you were downvoted because people don't have any argument against your point : jews couldn't stop the holocaust by just surrendering, like hamas does. The two situations have absolutely nothing in common.

So as long as there is one Hamas left standing, everyone around must die. This is what you mean?

Edit: can the non-Hamas surrender and avoid getting killed? They can't and the situations on the ground aren't that different. A Warzaw and Gazan survivor would have a lot in common.

Re: Top UN legal investigators conclude Israel is guilty of genocide in Gaza

#160

Post by darth_avocado »

wmeredith wrote: post #146
bix6 wrote: post #102

Combined with the other ongoing conflicts it really feels like we’re in a WW3 era

I don't want to downplay the atrocities going on in the current conflicts, but this sort of comment deserves some perspective. About 70 million people were killed in WW2, as of the present day about 1 million have died in the war Russia is waging against Ukraine and about 70k people have died in the Israeli/Palestine conflict. The horrors are most certainly real. But WW3 this era is most certainly not, that's thankfu…

The World Wars were called World Wars because of the number conflicts and the powers involved. While the casualties and damage has been lower, it seems like the powers are at least indirectly involved at the moment.
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