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The Storm Hits the Art Market

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151–160 of 221 posts

Re: The Storm Hits the Art Market

#151

I make an unusual kind of art, but I haven't tried selling it, as you need a stable of interested people, and I can only post it in one place at the moment (a Facebook interest group on tiling, Instagram is overrun with AI, you can't start a new profile without lots of existing supporters). I've considered opening a gallery in my local area just to sell my art (5 million people in the metro, and barely a real commerc…

I have heard, and believe: successful galleries are a location thing. People with deep pockets will pick up a piece by anyone in Aspen, Colorado, and probably not look twice if they (somehow) saw a Koons in a Topeka gallery.

Gallery owners are taste makers like stock brokers used to be before people could just point and click directly.

They put you into a good piece of artwork at a good price, build a raport, look after their good clients, perform well over time and take a couple of points on the way in and out

Re: The Storm Hits the Art Market

#152
post #146

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Of course it's a conflict. Every war is a conflict.

Roman Empire, or Genghis Khan, or Nazi Germany did not have a "conflict" with neighbors, some kind of quarrel that can end in a compromise. They had a desire to conquer, subdue, and consume the neighbors. There could be no resolution beside a complete capitulation and becoming annexed. Russia is currently acting in this mode. There can be no "resolution", only a devastating military defeat of one of the sides.

This, so much this. Even many smart folks don't realize this, or refuse to acknowledge since its pretty bleak viewpoint with no bright future. This war won't end just because its getting annoying, or sad, or shocking whats happening.

Russia switched fully to war economy, on purpose, there is no easy way back even if they wanted. Their goal is to conquer as much Europe as possible, losing few millions of its sub-citizens from rural remote regions is not such a concern that we in the west think about. Nobody there cares. Their enemy is whole western world, doesn't matter how much trump licks putin's a*, not a zilch.

In fact, I strongly believe that almost nobody in the west fully understands how depraved and primitive russian thinking is, think about white heroin addicted trash or common slums folks, and spread it on the level of largest nation in the world and give them huge stockpiles of nuclear weapons. On top is good old mafia (and I don't mean Coppola's idealized version, I mean real murder-whole-family-in-acid-vat type), nothing more.

Now what good do you expect from that, now or in 10 years? Whatever you do, you are naive.

Re: The Storm Hits the Art Market

#153
post #69

when covid happened gold prices, crypto and art prices went through the roof; now that the covid situation appears under control and markets have returned back to normal, everything is predictable again - it makes sense that art markets are taking a steep decline back to normal levels. Being able to hide assets during a time of //war/plague/market crash/comet strike etc// is a skill which will make a man great wealth…

Gold hit a record high priced in USD today.

Gold always goes up. It's the rate of increase you have to monitor.

Re: The Storm Hits the Art Market

#154

I'm amazed that the article doesn't discuss the end of ZIRP. The bursting of the art market bubble in mid 2022 coincides exactly with when interest rates started rising following the 'transitory' inflation caused by pandemic relief measures. This was also the same time that we started seeing hiring freezes in tech, the bursting of the luxury watch bubble, etc. It's all tied together, and has the same root cause: It s…

> I'm amazed that the article doesn't discuss the end of ZIRP. There's a bigger culprit: NFTs. They sucked away a huge portion of art spending, with a promise of a fungible growth asset that you can just sell as needed. Art has always been considered a safe long-term investment (along with a means of conspicuous consumption), but it has always been non-liquid.

Well, that's very dead now.

Re: The Storm Hits the Art Market

#155
post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes and no - 2022 also drastically changed taxation of software development https://www.resourcefulfinancepro.com/news/irs-section-174-c...

Tech firms lobbied this change because they care about EBITA it makes their numbers look better

This change has zero effect on your EBITA.

Re: The Storm Hits the Art Market

#156

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can also just commission the art you need, a few hundred dollars is damn good money in much of the world( even in the US, if a small painting takes a few hours to make, 400$ can be a fair price). That said, I feel this article is really about our active recession. Rich people are cutting back too it seems.

I’ve never commissioned art but I am sorely tempted with a couple artists I’ve bought from. This may actually be the future for them.

Until recent times, commissioning was how it worked. This was why we only had paintings of kings and that guy called Jesus until Bruegel came along and painted peasants. Nobody was just painting whatever they wanted to paint, hiring a gallery and selling their 'art'.

The title of 'artist' is also an interesting one. Some titles have to be earned, for example, you can't call yourself a 'genius', an 'intellectual' or a 'hero' for obvious reasons. Yet creatives can call themselves an 'artist' as job description without society deeming them to be an 'artist'. In the olden days, before mass production, artists were just tradesmen doing a good job at whatever their trade was.

Our idea of art is deeply tied into capitalism. Compare the art of indigenous peoples with Western art. Art is all about fame and fortune rather than a love of the subject material and the craft.

One problem with the current status quo is that most artists are not in the commissioning game. Artists want to paint whatever their thing is, not some patron's dog, fancy house, religious deity or elderly relatives. If you do know someone making a living from painting people's dogs, then the question has to be asked, are they a real artist, or just a craftsperson?

Take the case of the architect, where the client is invariably calling the shots. Are they an artist? They don't need to be since they have the title of 'architect', however, few of them are called 'artist'.

Being 'artist' also comes with some understanding that the 'artist' doesn't have to work in the conventional sense, and therefore an 'artist' is high status. It works a bit like 'foot binding' in that regard since some people will want their kids to grow up to be 'artists', as in high status and not working for a wage. Sometimes this is just to validate the parent's life choices and shore up their status.

The real art of the age is all around us and made by commercial artists.

The commercial artist has a client and patron in the company they work for. They make adverts, packaging designs and such like, working within constraints. If working for Ford, the commercial artist isn't going to redesign the blue oval, they have to stick to the style guide, working within the constraints to make something new, in time and on budget.

So yes, commission what you want from an artist that puts the customer first.

Regarding the article, in the UK we had an art movement at the turn of the century with the likes of Damien Hirst, Tracey Emin and their ilk, pushed by Saatchi into art superstardom. However, about a year before 2008, this hustle came crashing down. If we currently have some cooling off in the art market then that is an indicator that the economy as a whole is heading for tough times.

Re: The Storm Hits the Art Market

#157
post #7

This is really the art as speculation fad coming home to roost. The people actually interested in art as art are now on things like Instagram buying direct from the artists with very little gatekeeping either by art schools or galleries. It would be tempting to see if there is a correlation in when the “legit” art world price going off a cliff and the NFT bubble, because that suckered in a lot of the idiot end of the…

The "art as speculation" fad is just a consequence of "inflation is good" economic theory, the same as "real estate as an investment". If you don't let people hold onto cash, they will just find something else to replace it (and of course, it is always the lower classes that have to suffer the secret taxation that is money supply inflation targets).

It's only really in the latter half of the 20th century that inflation has actually been held to 0-2% by the active manipulation of interest rates to increase unemployment, and yet everyone acts like inflation is the end of the world.

Re: The Storm Hits the Art Market

#158
post #97

I'm amazed that the article doesn't discuss the end of ZIRP. The bursting of the art market bubble in mid 2022 coincides exactly with when interest rates started rising following the 'transitory' inflation caused by pandemic relief measures. This was also the same time that we started seeing hiring freezes in tech, the bursting of the luxury watch bubble, etc. It's all tied together, and has the same root cause: It s…

2022 is also when the wars in Ukraine and Gaza started in earnest When wars are going on, most people in affected countries are thinking about heavier things than going to an art exhibit and boosting their collections. 2020 and 2021 was when the pandemic happened. Businesses started feeling the crunch all over the world from the lockdowns. Supply chains got bullwhipped. People weren’t exactly interested in going to b…

> 2022 is also when the wars in Ukraine and Gaza started in earnest

This is just wrong for Gaza; either you take the "conflict has been running continuously since 1948" approach, or you date the present intense fighting to October 2023.

> AI has now sent a supply shock to the whole art industry

Not to the "fine art" part of it, no. It's taken out the lower and middle tiers; people doing commissions for a few hundred dollars are squeezed out, and there's much more slop to sell to tourists, but any business which cares about uniqueness and provenance (sometimes more than the content of the art!) is not going to notice.

Re: The Storm Hits the Art Market

#159
post #146

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Of course it's a conflict. Every war is a conflict.

Roman Empire, or Genghis Khan, or Nazi Germany did not have a "conflict" with neighbors, some kind of quarrel that can end in a compromise. They had a desire to conquer, subdue, and consume the neighbors. There could be no resolution beside a complete capitulation and becoming annexed. Russia is currently acting in this mode. There can be no "resolution", only a devastating military defeat of one of the sides.

Empires have often grown without any desire to grow. Quite often empires have grown by moving against a threat close to its borders or trade routes and ends up in control of new areas, which then become part of its territories, which are then threatened....

Expansion is not uncontroversial either. The Roman Empire had periods of a non-expansionist policy, and the British Empire in the 19th century had a fairly popular Little Englander movement that opposed expansion of the empire.

Re: The Storm Hits the Art Market

#160

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Someone in the space told me that China were big buyers of art but suddenly they stopped. This could be because of capital controls, financial stress or increasing sense of national pride - take your pick

These aren’t limited to China: - fewer people can afford a home, let alone multiple = less wall space for premium art - it’s way easier and cheaper to launder money through cryptocurrency casinos than art auctions

I'm not convinced that the first point has necessarily affected the premium art space unless you're referring to the spill in effects. TFA talks about a space in Art Basel costing 100k - the target clientele for all intents and purposes are completely unaffected by the recent economic problems. Some have gotten even richer if anything
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