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If you have a Claude account, they're going to train on your data moving forward

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Re: If you have a Claude account, they're going to train on your data moving forward

#151

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Okay, but "stealing" is also an oversimplification, to the point of absurdity. It makes no sense to put stuff up on the internet where it can freely be downloaded by anyone at any time, by people who are then free to do whatever they like with it on their own hardware, then complain that people have downloaded that stuff and done what they liked with it on their own hardware. "Having machines consume large volumes of…

> "Having machines consume large volumes of data posted on the Internet for the purpose of generating value for them without compensating the creators" is equally a description of Google. Quid pro quo. Those sites also received traffic from the audiences searching using Google. "Without compensation" really only became a thing when Google started adding the inlined cards which distilled the site's content thus obviat…

I'm not sure quid pro quo even matters. A search engine is more like providing a taxi service. You're just taking people to a place.

Now the AI summaries are a different story. One where there is no quid pro quo either. It's different when that taxi service will also offer the same service as that business. It's VERY different when that taxi service will walk into that business, take their services free of charge[0], and then transfer that to the taxi customer.

[0] Scraping isn't going to offer ad revenues

[Side note] In our analogy the little text below the link it more like the taxi service offering some advertising or some description of the business. Bit more gray here but I think the quid pro quo phrase applies here. Taxi does this to help customer find the right place to go, providing the business more customers. But the taxi isn't (usually) replacing the service itself.

Re: If you have a Claude account, they're going to train on your data moving forward

#152
post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They are not free to do whatever they like, there are tomes of laws across all countries governing what someone can and cannot do with your intellectual property. Just because we didn't have the foresight to add in a "if by chance in the future someone invents artificial intelligence, that's not fair use" is a shame, but doesn't make what these companies are doing ethical or morale. I don't disagree regarding Google,…

I did say "free to do whatever they like on their own hardware ", because intellectual property laws generally govern the transfer of such property rather than the use. After seeing the harm done by the expansion of patent law to cover software algorithms, and the relentless abuse done under the DMCA, I am reflexively skeptical of any effort to expand intellectual property concepts.

  > on their own hardware
That doesn't make it technically legal. That only makes it not worth pursuing. You can sue Joe Schmoe for a million dollars but if he doesn't have that then you're not getting a dime. But if Joe Schmoe is using that thing to make money, well then... yeah you bet your ass that's a different situation and the "worth" of pursuing is directly proportional to how much he is making. Doesn't matter if it is his own hardware or not.

Like why do you think who owns the hardware even matters? Do you really think the legality changes if I rent a GPU vs use my own? That doesn't make any sense.

Re: If you have a Claude account, they're going to train on your data moving forward

#153

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Oh and i forgot the most important thing, I am paying good money for this service, now they also mine my data? I grew up in a time where "if it's free, you're the product". I guess that's not even the case anymore, if you pay, you're still the product...

That was never the case. You paid money for food in the store? Tracked and data mined. You pay for spotify? Tracked and data mined. Only thing not tracked are things where it is impossible/worthless to track it

i guess it's super cool then shrug. There is also a difference between tracking the music you listen to and even the food you buy, and "conversations" you have that may include much more private and sensitive topics.

Re: If you have a Claude account, they're going to train on your data moving forward

#154

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Reading stuff freely posted on the internet" constitutes stealing now? Seems like an excessively draconian interpretation of property rights.

"Reading stuff freely posted on the internet" is also very different from a business having machines consume large volumes of data posted on the Internet for the purpose of generating value for them without compensating the creators. I'm not making a value judgement one way or the other, but "reading stuff freely posted on the Internet" is an oversimplification.

I consumed large volumes of data posted on the internet for decades, which generated a lot of value for me, without compensating the creators.

The only difference is that I (presumably) have a soul.

Re: If you have a Claude account, they're going to train on your data moving forward

#156

To be honest, these companies already stole terabytes of data and don't even disclose their dataset, so you have to assume they'll steal and train at anything you throw at them

Yours is the sanest interpretation of this.

Re: If you have a Claude account, they're going to train on your data moving forward

#157

To be honest, these companies already stole terabytes of data and don't even disclose their dataset, so you have to assume they'll steal and train at anything you throw at them

"Reading stuff freely posted on the internet" constitutes stealing now? Seems like an excessively draconian interpretation of property rights.

Faithfully reproducing something you've previously read while passing it off as your own original work is a violation of the most basic tenets of intellectual property rights.

Re: If you have a Claude account, they're going to train on your data moving forward

#158

Am I the only one that assumed everything was already being used for training?

I don't understand this mindset. Why would you assume anything? It took me a couple minutes at most to check when I first started using Claude. I check when I start using any new service. The cynical assumption that everything's being shared leads to shrugging it off and making no attempt to look for settings. It only takes a moment to go into settings -> privacy and look.

> I check when I start using any new service.

So your assumption is that the reported privacy policy of any company is completely accurate. There there is no means for the company to violate this policy and that once violated you will immediately be notified.

> It only takes a moment to go into settings -> privacy and look.

It only takes a moment to examine history and observe why this is wholly inadequate.

Re: If you have a Claude account, they're going to train on your data moving forward

#159

This going to turn into one of those situations where we find out they trained on everyone whether they opted-out or not down the line. I want to keep using Claude, but I also don't want all the solutions I come up with to become common knowledge.

When has a company ignored an opt-out preference before? It sounds like you have something in mind.

Not the OP but…

https://www.jdsupra.com/legalnews/healthline-media-agrees-to...

"Healthline.com provided an opt-out mechanism, but it was misconfigured and Healthline failed to test it, resulting in data being shared with third parties even after consumers elected to opt out.”

https://www.bbc.com/news/technology-65772154

"The company agreed to pay the US Federal Trade Commission (FTC) after it was accused of failing to delete Alexa recordings at the request of parents.”

https://www.mediapost.com/publications/article/405635/califo...

"According to the [California Privacy Protection] agency, Todd Snyder told website visitors they could opt out of data sharing, but didn't actually allow them to do so for 40 days in late 2023 because its opt-out mechanism was improperly configured."

Re: If you have a Claude account, they're going to train on your data moving forward

#160
This needs to be a two way street ... one where we have programs that feed in piles of constant garbage unless they pay us for the privilege of clean data.

When things are free (in this case your input), they will get abused. Put a cost on it.

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