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Framework Laptop 16

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Re: Framework Laptop 16

#151

Post by nrp »

trelane wrote: post #118
nrp wrote: post #4

I'm happy to answer questions around the new product.

What all does your Linux support entail? Do you offer support for both Linux abd Windows models? Is the firmware identical for the models that ship with Windows and those that ship with Linux? How well does Linux work out of the box? What kind of small glitches can a Linux user expect?

We publish our recommended and officially supported Linux distros here: https://frame.work/laptop16?tab=linux

For the new generation, we'll list those as we get closer to shipments.

Re: Framework Laptop 16

#152

Post by rnhmjoj »

TomLisankie wrote: post #139
aidenn0 wrote: post #129

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When the AMD driver was named "radeon" nvidia was better, but since "amdgpu" came out things have flipped.

Is this because the driver itself has changed in its operation or just from the name change breaking lots of code that referenced the "radeon" name?

It's a completely different driver for a different architecture. The biggest reason it works so much better is that it's open source (with some blobs, of course) and part of the mainline kernel, unlike its predecessor which was developed downstream and fully proprietary.

Re: Framework Laptop 16

#153

Post by simpaticoder »

kibwen wrote: post #88
simpaticoder wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have a 1st gen Framework 13, Intel 11th gen CPU, running Ubuntu 24. It had a faulty design around the BIOS battery on the motherboard that I had to fix, and do some soldering on[1]. It's remarkable because they didn't say "Send the laptop in and we'll fix the design defect" they said, "First take a photo of the inside of the laptop to verify the serial number, then place an order, then do the repair yourself." This…

> then do the repair yourself This is awesome though, and exactly the sort of thing one buys a Framework for. > the laptop's battery life is not good Mine is great, I share a single USB-C cord among all my laptops (of which I have despairingly too many) and I often use my Framework all day while forgetting it's not plugged in. (Fedora, if the OS matters.)

>This is awesome though

No, it's not awesome. Upgrading ram and disk or replacing a motherboard, screen or battery is great. Repairing a badly designed motherboard with a soldering iron is not great. In fact, it's bad. I think there's a good argument that it violates (warranty) law. If a car company sells to you based on "right to repair" and then it turns out there was a design defect in the engine, is it "awesome" if they tell you you need to pull the engine and rebuild it?

Glad your battery life is good. I notice you didn't mention it losing power when suspended. Curious.

Re: Framework Laptop 16

#154

Post by nrp »

OsrsNeedsf2P wrote: post #116
nrp wrote: post #4

I'm happy to answer questions around the new product.

I have an old Framework 16. How do I know which of the new parts I can upgrade? I imagine I can't upgrade my chassis (or can I?)

You can upgrade to any one of the new parts. In the Framework Marketplace, you can set compatibility filters to see the new parts (some of which are on waitlist because we'll be shipping them later this year): https://frame.work/marketplace?compatibility%5B%5D=laptop_16

Re: Framework Laptop 16

#155

Post by bigstrat2003 »

bodge5000 wrote: post #82

I'm glad the AMD GPU option still exists, I don't have great experience with NVIDIA on Linux. The rest of the upgrades, like the new top cover and keyboard, are very welcome

I've never had anything but positive experience with Nvidia on Linux (which I've been using for 5 years or so now). That said, I'm on a desktop and not a laptop, so the hardware isn't the same. My experience might not be representative of what laptop users see.

Re: Framework Laptop 16

#156

Post by c-hendricks »

diggan wrote: post #43
criddell wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What workflows are impossible with a trackpad but possible with a mouse?

With the trackpads that have built-in clicks in the pad itself, I've always found it really difficult to drag-and-drop stuff if it has to be pulled longer than a few pixels. Just moving and pressing against a surface seems to not be a super accurate movement in general.

Although it gets buggier with every release, macOS has a three-finger-drag operation, and there's a grace period when you lift your fingers if you need to adjust your position over the trackpad. It also lets you just fling one finger.

There is this for Linux but I've never tried it:

https://github.com/marsqing/libinput-three-finger-drag

Re: Framework Laptop 16

#157

Post by yogorenapan »

9x39 wrote: post #140

Anyone using Framework for a daily driver that can compare to an M-series Macbook? Specifically, battery life on your OS. Does anything compare to a MBP these days? From a value proposition, it seems good. Our group definitely goes through keyboards and mainboards from spilled tea at least annually it seems, but AppleCare is just a no-brainer, and away we go. I still drive on my original M1 at home without complaint,…

I have an early batch framework (i7 11th gen) still in use (I have no other laptops or a PC). A few benefits I've gotten out of it: - I spilled almost a liter of milk on my keyboard, really gummed it up. Keys stopped working. Got it replaced for pretty cheap. - Linux just works. No weird driver issues But... - Battery life is horrible. I pretty much just have it plugged in whenever I can. When off battery, I use the cpupower frequency set command to limit to 1000MHz which is fast enough for vim anyways. Compiling stuff becomes a bit slower but since I write Go, it's not too bad. - Fan noise is loud - My specific laptop had a weird sensor bug where it would sometimes randomly get throttled to 200 MHz. Framework didn't really help or replace it.

Honestly it'll probably last me another 5 years before I need to switch out the mainboard. I don't do anything intense like gaming.

Re: Framework Laptop 16

#158

Post by chao- »

TomLisankie wrote: post #139
aidenn0 wrote: post #129

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When the AMD driver was named "radeon" nvidia was better, but since "amdgpu" came out things have flipped.

Is this because the driver itself has changed in its operation or just from the name change breaking lots of code that referenced the "radeon" name?

They were referencing a time, in the middle of the 2010's, when "amdgpu" was released. It is a completely rewritten, different driver, and is mostly open source [0]. Before that, the driver was named "radeon" and it was very shaky. I can speak to this personally. I had desktop Linux systems with both AMD/ATI and Nvidia GPUs, and while there were some issues with Nvidia, the AMD/ATI drivers gave me nightmares.

Once the rewritten "amdgpu" driver came out, things got much better. The first few cards created after that (IIRC the Polaris GPUs, RX 400's), the situation reversed. I still have had occasional issues with various Nvidia cards (normally driver updates breaking things), but for almost a decade now, I have not had issues with AMD GPUs under Linux.

[0] Except for pro features while using workstation cards. You need to use a proprietary driver for those, but even those share a lot of code with the open source driver.

Re: Framework Laptop 16

#159

Post by simpaticoder »

bevr1337 wrote: post #120
kibwen wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> then do the repair yourself This is awesome though, and exactly the sort of thing one buys a Framework for. > the laptop's battery life is not good Mine is great, I share a single USB-C cord among all my laptops (of which I have despairingly too many) and I often use my Framework all day while forgetting it's not plugged in. (Fedora, if the OS matters.)

I'm going to assume soldering on the main board is far outside the ability of most users. They're not through hole, big green boards like I learned on. It is certainly awesome for those that can, of course!

It does not make sense to praise a company for selling defective products because some of the customers have the ability to repair the defect.

Re: Framework Laptop 16

#160

Post by hecanjog »

9x39 wrote: post #140

Anyone using Framework for a daily driver that can compare to an M-series Macbook? Specifically, battery life on your OS. Does anything compare to a MBP these days? From a value proposition, it seems good. Our group definitely goes through keyboards and mainboards from spilled tea at least annually it seems, but AppleCare is just a no-brainer, and away we go. I still drive on my original M1 at home without complaint,…

I have a first generation framework 13, I upgraded the mainboard last year to the 12th gen intel i7-1280P mainboard. My original mainboard was from the first batch with the bios battery issues but still works, though I haven't had success getting it to run standalone in the coolmaster case yet.

I'm happy with my framework 13 four years later. I might switch to the stiffer hinge and/or a matte screen in the future. Might try one of the AMD mainboards in a few generations when they're cheaper and put my current mainboard into another case...

Edit: FWIW I bought a macbook air M1 a year after getting the framework 13, and ended up selling it. The battery life on the macbook air was significantly better, but I can still spend an entire workday in the park with the glossy framework 13 without needing to recharge so the extra battery life from the M1 didn't really have a ton of value for me.

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